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  • flyinthermals
    Experienced
    • Apr 3 2013
    • 179

    Brake Fail

    I noticed smoke coming from the brake light switch that is threaded to the power brake booster. I unplugged the two wires going to the switch and the lights went out. The brake lights were on since yesterday and had drained my battery. There is no oil puddles underneath. The reservoir is full. The brake pedal returns to the top position very slowly with the car running or off. It makes a squeaking sound. The pedal is stiff but travels to the floor with the car off and soft and spongy with the car running. I am wondering if the brake booster has failed. I'm not sure where to start. Thanks to all that reply.

    Rob
    Last edited by flyinthermals; August 10, 2013, 07:34 AM.
    sigpic1999.jpg
  • simplyconnected
    Administrator
    • May 26 2009
    • 8779

    #2
    These switches commonly fail. Check out rockauto.com...
    1962 FORD THUNDERBIRD 6.4L 390cid V8 : Electrical-Switch & Relay : Brake Light Switch
    AIRTEX / WELLS Part # 3D5
    Price US$2.65/each

    I'm sure most of the auto parts stores around your area will have them (or can get them in a day or so).

    These switches have a pipe thread and they unscrew. You can do it yourself or bring the new part to a mechanic.
    BTW, keep the wires far away from ground or it might blow a fuse. - Dave
    Member, Sons of the American Revolution

    CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

    "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
    --Lee Iacocca

    From: Royal Oak, Michigan

    Comment

    • flyinthermals
      Experienced
      • Apr 3 2013
      • 179

      #3
      I am thinking that the switch done its job and kept the lights on because the brake booster failed. The switch is probably gone now from heating up due to the battery drain.
      sigpic1999.jpg

      Comment

      • jopizz
        Super-Experienced


        • Nov 23 2009
        • 8317

        #4
        I would first take the master cylinder off and see if you have any fluid in the booster. A spongy pedal usually indicates a master cylinder leak. Even though the master cylinder is full even a small leak can cause air to go past the seals.

        John
        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

        Thunderbird Registry #36223
        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

        Comment

        • simplyconnected
          Administrator
          • May 26 2009
          • 8779

          #5
          Brake boosters fail in a few ways:
          Usually the brake pedal gets hard to push or it leaks vacuum (you can hear vacuum leaking when you pull the M/C).

          If brake fluid fills the booster, you have two problems. The M/C is leaking and the booster is leaking.

          Do John's suggestion. If everything looks ok, clean off everything, replace your switch and bleed the brake lines.

          If you troubleshoot from that point, the problem may be more evident.
          Member, Sons of the American Revolution

          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

          Comment

          • flyinthermals
            Experienced
            • Apr 3 2013
            • 179

            #6
            Can the switch failing cause the brakes to fade and be spongy? I thought that the brake booster may be the problem and the switch was activated and stayed on because of it. And it was the brake lights staying on that drained the battery.

            Also the brake light switch is threaded into the front bottom of the brake booster instead of how the manual shows it to be on top of the master brake reservoir. What year could these parts be from?
            Last edited by flyinthermals; August 10, 2013, 08:55 PM.
            sigpic1999.jpg

            Comment

            • shafe
              Apprentice
              • Mar 25 2007
              • 33

              #7
              booster ?

              Can the booster be bypassed? The a.c. and all ac components were removed years ago...booster is bad and under dash, can I bypass?

              Comment

              • jopizz
                Super-Experienced


                • Nov 23 2009
                • 8317

                #8
                Originally posted by shafe
                Can the booster be bypassed? The a.c. and all ac components were removed years ago...booster is bad and under dash, can I bypass?
                The booster can be bypassed by plugging the vacuum line at the intake manifold. You will then have basically manual brakes.

                John
                John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                Thunderbird Registry #36223
                jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                Comment

                • simplyconnected
                  Administrator
                  • May 26 2009
                  • 8779

                  #9
                  Originally posted by flyinthermals
                  I noticed smoke coming from the brake light switch that is threaded to the power brake booster...
                  Originally posted by flyinthermals
                  ...Also the brake light switch is threaded into the front bottom of the brake booster instead of how the manual shows it to be on top of the master brake reservoir...
                  Now that I've read this twice, it must be for real. I've just never seen a setup like that. Can you show a picture of your booster and brake switch?

                  Here is a stock brake switch:


                  The only other setup I am familiar with is a mechanical brake switch, mounted at the brake pedal support. I am still wondering how on earth your brake light switch could work off of vacuum. I gotta see this... - Dave
                  Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                  Comment

                  • flyinthermals
                    Experienced
                    • Apr 3 2013
                    • 179

                    #10
                    I was mistaken. The switch is where it should be. I was thinking of something else. I hope the fix is as easy as installing a new switch. The brakes seem a little spongy and return to the top very slowly???
                    Last edited by flyinthermals; August 12, 2013, 12:06 AM.
                    sigpic1999.jpg

                    Comment

                    • simplyconnected
                      Administrator
                      • May 26 2009
                      • 8779

                      #11
                      What, no pictures? Then, I can't see what you are seeing. Your last post confuses me because now, I don't have a clue as to what the problem is.

                      Did you follow John's advice?
                      Did you change the brake switch?
                      Did you bleed the system?

                      We just enjoyed a beautiful summer weekend. - Dave
                      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment

                      • jopizz
                        Super-Experienced


                        • Nov 23 2009
                        • 8317

                        #12
                        Dave,

                        Don't you just love it when people ask for help and totally ignore your suggestions. Maybe if they were forced to pay the $20 membership fee in order to ask for help they would be a little more considerate.

                        John
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment

                        • Yellowbird
                          Experienced

                          • Jun 18 2009
                          • 259

                          #13
                          Dave,
                          Not to hijack the thread but our local paper had a picture from the car show at Ford Headquarters in Dearborn. The picture was of Henry Ford II handbuilt prototype '64 Mustang. Since it was a nice weekend did you get to go?

                          Again I apologize for hijacking the thread.

                          Leonard
                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • simplyconnected
                            Administrator
                            • May 26 2009
                            • 8779

                            #14
                            Yes, John.. the ones that rip me are guys who sign up, post a technical question that takes some doing to research, then they never sign back on to read the answer.
                            You're right, sometimes that's what we get for offering free help.

                            Len, you sparked a few things in my head. I know the picture you refer to and it makes me laugh every time I see it.
                            The Mustang project was put on ice for SEVEN years before The Duce finally allowed Iacocca to go ahead.

                            Mustang prototypes were made in 1955 & '57. But Ford suffered a tremendous financial blow from the Edsel which made The Duce mighty gun shy. His quote to Iacocca was, "This better work." Boy, did it.

                            Even though the Mustang was a huge success, Ford still hated Iacocca, and put his office miles away from World Headquarters. History shows, Iacocca didn't stick around Ford Motor Co., too long after the Mustang's debut. In fact, I worked in Manufacturing Development, two doors down from Lee. We used to see him a lot. It seems every time we did, heads were pared. Then he left for Chrysler Corp.

                            Now, we get to see the pictures of Henry smiling with a Mustang. - Dave

                            EDIT: Len, I started working at Ford over forty years ago. Robin & I kept a 'family' membership at Greenfield Village for decades. Now that they raised prices by over a third with NO discounts for employees or retirees, we don't hang around Dearborn much any more unless we're directly involved in some activity.
                            Last edited by simplyconnected; August 12, 2013, 07:54 PM.
                            Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                            --Lee Iacocca

                            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                            Comment

                            • flyinthermals
                              Experienced
                              • Apr 3 2013
                              • 179

                              #15
                              Wow... heavy pile on. I try to post and respond when time allows. I work a lot and the kids take much of my time. I haven’t figured out how to post pictures yet. Shame on me. It has only been 2 days and I will buy the light switch when I have time to find one. As for following advice, I certainly try to follow advice to things I don’t know about. That is why I ask the question in the first place. The lighting in my underground is very poor and it's hard to see. Sorry If my lack of knowledge on the Tbirds or car is general has rustled anyone’s feathers. I’m simply trying to tap into the collective minds of hundreds if not thousands of years of knowledge. I thought that is what this site is for. To ask questions for the the benefit of everyone. And yes I am a paid member. I will promise to keep my questions in the future to a minimum as not to irritate anyone here.

                              Cheers
                              sigpic1999.jpg

                              Comment

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