1964 Thunderbird

[dolphins40]

Hey there..I'm hoping someone can help me. I've replaced the coil, distributor, wires, etc but it still wont turn completely over. Is there something I'm missing? I"m new to working on these types of cars so anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated!

[simplyconnected]

Welcome, Steve. Do you have a wiring diagram?

When you say it won't turn completely over, you need to be a lot more detailed in your question. I have visions of a mechanical bind, holding the crank from turning in circles. Does the starter work ok?

Do you have stock points?
Condenser?
Ballast resistor?
Are you getting any spark?
Do you smell gas?

What's the background on your car? Has it been in storage a long time?

[dolphins40]

Its been in storage for a while- got it from someone who was restoring it. Dont think its run since 1998. Not sure what a ballast resistor is, but it has stock points, condenser, gets a spark and sounds like its going to turn over but it doesnt. I've looked at the ignition wires and fixed those. Theres new oil, gas, battery, coil, distributor, etc. What else should I look for?

[dolphins40]

I'm not getting any spark now...how do I go about getting spark?

[simplyconnected]

You only need three basic things for fire:
Fuel
Heat (spark)
Oxygen

As long as your engine is timed right, it should run. Pull the valve covers off and make sure all 16 rocker arms are going up and down while you crank the engine. If you notice one isn't working right, check the pushrod.

Did anyone change the cam or timing chain? Was the distributor removed? It is easy to be off by one distributor tooth, and it is easy to remedy.

I didn't get a response about whether you have a wiring diagram. The Service Manual covers all the timing procedures, and shows the ballast resistor in the ignition system. Using the correct firing order and proper timing, your engine should start easy and run great.

[dolphins40]

Its been in storage for a while- got it from someone who was restoring it. Dont think its run since 1998. Not sure what a ballast resistor is, but it has stock points, condenser, gets a spark and sounds like its going to turn over but it doesnt. I've looked at the ignition wires and fixed those. Theres new oil, gas, battery, coil, distributor, etc. Now I'm not getting spark..how would I get spark?

[simplyconnected]

Follow the ignition diagram; every time the points open, you should get a spark. The distributor directs this spark to the appropriate spark plug based on cam/crank timing.

If you don't get a spark when the points open, check the ballast resistor wiring and your coil.

[KULTULZ]

Turnover- The engine cranks

Run(s)- The engine started

[YellowRose]

1964 Thunderbird

Hi Steve,

The ballast resistor is a rectangular ceramic resistor with two contacts on it in the case of the Squarebirds ballast resistor. If the one on a Flairbird looks the same, look for it between the MC and the hood latch on the firewall. If you dont see it there, look around that firewall to see if you have one. Sometimes a wire might come off it. If so, it is a simple matter of putting the wire back on the connector. It looks like this.

[Alan H. Tast, AIA]

There is danger in thinking that Squarebird-type technology is the same for later cars - this is one of those cases.
The ceramic ballast resistor shown was used 1958-1959. Starting in 1960 Ford stopped using an externally-mounted ceramic ballast resistor and instead used a resistor wire from the ignition switch to the coil. When cold it allows full 12 volts to pass through it, but as it warms up voltage drops to a level that's acceptable for the coil to work without burning up the points in the distributor. A study of the wiring diagram schematic will show this wire with a resistor symbol. Physical ID should reveal a pink wire in the harness in most instances, but again you'll need to verify this against the wiring schematics.

When people convert to an aftermarket solid state ignition system like the Pertronix Ignitor, this wire is recommended to be bypassed with a non-resistor wire to provide a full 12 volts to the coil for maximum benefit of the newer system.

[simplyconnected]

Steve, here's the proper way to time your newly assembled engine. I will assume your timing chain is correctly installed.

Pull your rocker arm covers off and make sure all your rocker arms are doing full strokes. Bump your engine until #6 rocker arms have started motion; the exhaust rocker arm has gone down and is on its way up, and the intake rocker arm is just starting to move. When they are dead level with each other, your crankshaft timing marks should be at Top Dead Center.

If your timing mark is off a few degrees that's ok. At this point, #1 cylinder is in position to fire.

Pull your distributor cap off and look at the rotor. If it is pointing straight at the #1 spark plug tower, that is correct. If not, take the hold-down bolt out, pull straight up on the distributor to pull it out. Turn the rotor slightly to the left of #1. When you set it back down, the rotor will back up as the gears mesh.

If your distributor won't go down all the way, the oil pump drive shaft is probably not lined up. Leave the distributor in the hole and bump the starter. In about 1/2 turn of the crank, all of a sudden, the distributor will drop down as the oil pump shaft enters the bottom of the distributor.

Again, examine the rotor postion at about 6-8* BTDC. The rotor should point to #1 spark plug tower. If not, do the above procedure again, until it does.

For a rough timing setting, keep the timing marks at 6-8* BTDC and watch the points as you rotate the housing. When the points just start to open, tighten the distributor and connect the vacuum line. Your engine should start just fine. Later, use a timing light for fine tuning. - Dave

[dolphins40]

Thanks for all the great advice! I think I have the wiring under control. If this doesnt work, I'll just have to wait until the manual arrives.

[dolphins40]

Thanks..it doesnt appear that I have one.

[dolphins40]

Does anyone know where i can get a new starter relay for my 64' t-bird? I cant find one anywhere. thanks

[KULTULZ]

Do you want just a service part or a restoration correct part?