1965 Dual Master Cylinder help

[simplyconnected]

Good point about the booster going bad... I forgot about that until you mentioned it. Without a booster and proper vacuum, good brakes will feel like a rock!

The stock prop valve should work just fine. No need to replace it unless the rear wheels are locking up.

If you want to hear some REAL brake horror stories, google 'teves brake failures'. These were electric/hydraulic ABS systems that failed regularly on Buick Reatta's (and other cars as well). The system was a German design and manufacture. It got so bad, owners were retrofitting Camaro/Firebird brake systems to their Buick's and Caddy's. On many accounts, the whole teves system was replaced (at a cost of over $2,000) and the new system failed shortly after. Teves failures caused thousands of accidents.

Our systems are simple and very low-tech, which means, fewer things can go wrong and they are very dependable.

Yes, residual valves are used in systems where the M/C is lower than the wheel cylinders (usually in hot rods where the M/C is mounted to the frame, under the driver). Think of it as a 'partial check valve' exerting just enough pressure to hold air back.

[ShowMeGuy]

Ok guys..
The bore size on the MC is 1".
The booster push rod is withing 1/16" between it and the hole in the MC and is on the short side on that 1/16". Which to you point allows the system to "open" up after brakes are released.

The check valve worked on the booster and when I pulled it out it was holding vacuum.
I searched online to see if there was a way to test a booster and found this verbage and tried. it...
""To check the vacuum booster, pump the brake pedal with the engine off until you've bled off all the vacuum from the unit. Then hold the pedal down and start the engine. You should feel the pedal depress slightly as engine vacuum enters the booster and pulls on the diaphragm. No change? Then check the vacuum hose connection and engine vacuum. If okay, the problem is in the booster and the booster needs to be replaced.""

I did not feel any slight depress when i fired up the engine. I did check those flex hoses and they look and seemed to be in good shape.

If this is pointing towards a booster is there anything out there I can use besides this? I's pretty dang spendy and hoped for a more objective test than a "slight depress" before I shell out 200 bucks TIA guys!

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000030b~Z5Z5Z51026~P205.00~~~~S33G0J4BIH69179117050C~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000030c#

[ShowMeGuy]

I guess I will go ahead and replace the two rubber flex hoses in front to the discs and the one in the rear going to the drums and go from there. It seems to be the cheapest and best way to rule them out.
That booster has be stumped though with it holding a vacuum.... UGH! But I just noticed something in those pics.

Your check valve has 2 hoses going to it. Mine only has one and it is going to the junction on the intake.... I just ordered my shop manual too BTW... along with new inner tierods..

The MC i put in part number as 10-1378 from Napa.

I rebled the lines again last night.

Anyways... ShowMeGuy.. the stumped..

[RustyNCa]

But I just noticed something in those pics.

Your check valve has 2 hoses going to it. Mine only has one and it is going to the junction on the intake.... I just ordered my shop manual too BTW... along with new inner tierods..

The MC i put in part number as 10-1378 from Napa.

I rebled the lines again last night.

Anyways... ShowMeGuy.. the stumped..

Hmm, I would have to look under the hood and see where they go. I can tell you, other than the M/C, my car is about as original as you're going to find. I bought it from the original owner, so I am the second owner and he didn't change anything on the car . So if you need ideas of how thing should look, mine is a good place to look.

Cheers
RustyNCA

[ShowMeGuy]

well curiosity got me and I went ahead and pulled the booster. I looks to me like the PO had taken off the booster at some point and possibly the mount it sits on against the firewall.. The nuts were all shiny on both the back of the booster where it mounts to the bracket as well as the nuts that holds it against the firewall from under the dash. The booster is well rusted and has like a JY stock number in wax pen on it. Or at least it looks that way to me.

Being I've never had one off of a vehicle. Can someone help me understand or get a picture of just how much throw that rod should have and maybe give me their thoughts on just how hard it should be to push in the piece on the rear of the booster? It was pretty stiff at first but I sprays a bit of lube on it and it helped a ton...

I'm probably opening up doors I don't need to but now I'm wondering if the firewall bracket is stock and if that rod is giving me enough throw from the brake pedal. Right now it's probably 1.5"? maybe or just a hair shy of that.... Or well it's got me thinking that along with the booster....

Sorry for bouncing around on the post.. TIA all..

ShowMeGuy

[simplyconnected]

Ted, you should really talk with Booster Dewey:

http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/

Tell him what you found, and ask for his advice. He runs a great business and is well respected in our community. He actually rebuilds these boosters, himself. - Dave

[ShowMeGuy]

Ted, you should really talk with Booster Dewey:

http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/

Tell him what you found, and ask for his advice. He runs a great business and is well respected in our community. He actually rebuilds these boosters, himself. - Dave

I will certainly do that when I get back to town next week....
Thank You for the link.. Hopefully it will be just the ticket I need move to the next project.. Inner TieRod ends..

[RustyNCa]

I will certainly do that when I get back to town next week....
Thank You for the link.. Hopefully it will be just the ticket I need move to the next project.. Inner TieRod ends..

When you do your TieRod ends, just make sure you get some good Moog ends and don't end up with some of the cheaper foreign made parts...... You might want to price out all the tie rod ends while you have it apart.

You would hate to do just the inner ones, pay to have the car realigned and find out you need to do the outer as well, and then you are paying for another alignment. At that point you find your self wishing you had just replaced all of them and spent the money on more new hard parts than two alignments....

Also tie rods are pretty easy to do if you have the right tools, spend the money to get a tie rod puller.

RustyNCA

[ShowMeGuy]

Good point. I did order them from the birds nest so hopefully they are of good quality. Do you have another source you used?
Just got back from KS bird hunting so gonna call the boosterdewey guy when timezones catch up.
TIA, ShowMeGuy

[RustyNCa]

Good point. I did order them from the birds nest so hopefully they are of good quality. Do you have another source you used?
Just got back from KS bird hunting so gonna call the boosterdewey guy when timezones catch up.
TIA, ShowMeGuy

I like the birds nest, but I generally check at the local auto parts store first for parts availability. I purchased all my tie rod ends from a local store that carried Moog parts.

For example, I checked recently on a power steering pump for my son's 65, birds nest is $125 for a rebuilt pump, plus the $65 core plus shipping both ways. The local shop can get me the same thing for $95 with $5 in shipping so in that case it's better to go another way. But then there are other times that the birds nest or other tbird vendors are the only source, or where they are cheaper....

The big thing find a parts house that have good counter people, that is the key. The guys/gals I deal with I have known now for at least 10 years and they seem to work hard to chase down the strange stuff I sometimes come in looking for.....

[ShowMeGuy]

Ted, you should really talk with Booster Dewey:

http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/

Tell him what you found, and ask for his advice. He runs a great business and is well respected in our community. He actually rebuilds these boosters, himself. - Dave

Thank you for this info. I got a new booster for cheaper than anywhere else just need to send my core back. Re-bled my lines and installed everything back up and man... What a Freaking difference!!! That thing can stop now for sure!!! AWESOME! On to the next little piece... Hopefully it's not as a pain in my behind.... But it's stopping very very well now. Thanks again! Ted (ShowMeGuy)

[simplyconnected]

Ted, Squarebirds is committed to your automotive safety, so we may all enjoy our passion thoroughout the New Year.

Nothing beats dealing with the guy who actually does the work. Dewey does a fabulous service and he guarantees his work. I encourage anyone with brake questions to chat with Booster Dewey. If he cannot supply what you need, Dewey will steer you in the right direction.

I'm very glad your car is stopping well and the cost was reasonable. Now, we gotta talk you into using twenty bucks you saved to buy a membership with us. Trust me, a membership worth more than twenty bucks in benefits. - Dave

[RatsTbird]

RustyNCa,
Did you use the original MC in your conversion?

[RustyNCa]

RustyNCa,
Did you use the original MC in your conversion?

I'm sorry, I'm not certain what you mean by original MC.

But if you are asking about my conversion to a dual master on the 65 TBird, I used a Mustang disc/drum master for the conversion. It's been along time since I did it, but I think it was for a 67 or 68 Mustang GT. I know the birds nest carries a master that will fit in without having the clearance issue that the Mustang one does, but I think the Mustang one looks more "factory" correct, which is one reason why I went that direction.

I also have since learned there are two different boosters in the 65, I happened to have the one that is the thinner of the two.

[Guest]

Interesting that this old post came up, because I am having issues and am considering going to the dual master conversion. I purchased a reman booster/master assembly from Oreiliys and it worked great for about 3 months, then the thing would loose boost at any given time. I returned it for a replacement unit, and they gave me one that I don't believe is for a tbird, as the booster unit wasn't "tapered" to clear the valve cover like the OEM one was. I got it in, and it works except for the fact that my brake pedal now feels extremely stiff. I am returning it for yet another unit, and am considering the dual conversion since I am going to have it all apart anyways. Also worth noting that EVERYTHING was replaced when I originally did the brakes last October. Any thoughts on this?