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  #51  
Old 07-15-2018, 06:23 PM
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Dave in all the photos, the left /driver's side wheel is on the ground, but your suggestion makes sense in any case. Yes that light spot is a rub mark and yes the calipers have a notch that the end of the hose fits into.

I seem to recall ending up with extra banjo bolts after the project but I think they are the same length... I'll check. Can I reuse the copper washers or is it best to put new ones on?
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  #52  
Old 07-15-2018, 08:10 PM
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That's really similar to the problem I ran into with the Granada calipers. The OEM Granada hose stuck out toward the upper spring perch and I was afraid that the first time the suspension had a good bounce that hose would be sheared off.

I solved the issue by using some banjo bolts and GM hoses. I found the banjo bolt size first that would fit the Granada caliper. Then ordered the banjo bolts. Figured out what size hole the banjo bolts were supposed to go through and then searched for hoses that matched the banjo side as well as the OEM Tbird hard lines. Found the lines at Master Power Brakes and got the banjo bolts from an off road supplier in California.

The lines were not perfect and I had to notch the calipers so that the line would lay flat. That also helped keep the banjo end of the flex line from moving because the square-ish end of the line would hit the edges of the notches I made in the caliper. After 14 years or so I guess if it hasn't loosened by now it's not going to. I can dig for the part numbers if you think it will help.

I've re-used copper washers many times. The old MG's I work on have them everywhere. Sometimes I would have to heat them up red hot and let them air cool (anneal them). That's just because they were an odd size and it was long after any parts stores had closed. Best practice would be to just toss the old ones and replace since they are so cheap.

Here's a shot of the Granada calipers. The OEM Granada line would have stuck out toward you in the pic (toward the front of the car) and when turning right - the line for this caliper would be directly under that spring perch - WHACK.



That modification took a couple of extra weeks getting the parts - - but glad I made the change before I hit the road.

Eric
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  #53  
Old 08-05-2018, 05:56 AM
Brushwolf Brushwolf is offline
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Default Ford Mustang unit rotors/hubs, S10 calipers, Hose length?

Quote:
Originally Posted by del View Post
Greetings All ~
Wanted to share an update and see if anyone else has had a similar problem. My conversion is a year or so old - mustang rotors, s10 calipers and related recommended fittings. I have had the right front brake hose come loose at the caliper twice, but I believe it was due in both cases to the right front taking a huge dip when driving on uneven terrain. Last night the cruise was on grass (yea!) but also a lot uneven in spots. Whilst navigating to a shady spot the right front took a dip. Upon leaving the brake pedal was giving me the old soft shoe. Had to get AAA flat bed home because of course I had no tools with me. Last summer, in a rather sorry parking lot while turning and backing up the right front dipped into a huge pothole. I was luckily able to make it home thanks to that dual m/c!

The hose set I used was from Rock Auto Bendix 36646. What's the best way to get a replacement hose that's a little longer?

Thanks as always!
Did the angling of the hose ends correct the loosening issue?

Would shorter hoses (instead of longer) have avoided the apparent rub points that were pointed out, or would you use the same hoses again if starting from scratch?

The recipe for your swap includes Mustang rotors (what years)?

S10 calipers (what years and 2wd or 4wd)?

Are those "Scarebird" caliper brackets for TBird 58-60 or?

Assume grinding calipers was for wheel clearance... Was this to clear 14" wheel or ? If using 15" wheels not necessary?

Did your wheel track width change from original drums on this swap?

Does the smaller than stock booster work ok? Read somewhere before that using small diameter booster had issues.

Got source or part number for the booster and MC assembly?

Sorry for so many questions, but I am a firm believer in saving time and frustration by seeing what worked for others.

Thanks, Mike
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  #54  
Old 08-05-2018, 10:22 AM
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Default some answers

Hi Mike,
I had to refer to my files for some of these answers and some are just my opinion based on doing this job once, but here you go...
1. I have not yet adjusted the hoses.
2. It is possible that shorter hoses might avoid the rubbing. It is also possible that the 2WD vs 4WD calipers could make a difference as well. See #4.
3. Mustang rotor 1968-69 Rock Auto part# 6006R
4. S10 Calipers 1983-1997 4WD loaded O'Reillys TQM25010, TQM25011. Dave Dare (simplyconnected on here) and others can talk in more detail, but there is a difference in the angle of approach for the hose-to-caliper connection.
5. Scarebird bracket part#GXY specifically designed for 58-60 TBird
6. Grinding calipers was to accommodate 14" wheels from a mid-90's Ford Ranger w/disc brakes. I have not heard of anyone who was able to avoid some grinding to keep 14" wheels.
7. Did not measure wheel tracking.
8. No issues with booster, however, see *BONUS ANSWER below...
9. Pirate Jack booster PB8531, m/c kit MCK111BM which includes m/c MC1322H and PV2 prop valve, etc
*BONUS ANSWER - I would recommend that either a shorter booster rod eyelet than the Pirate Jack #PRE104 be used, or the booster shaft be trimmed by about 3/8". I found that once I had everything together, I had more pedal free play than I would like. According to Dave D, that vertical connector from the pedal "hockey stick" to the booster rod eyelet should be as close to vertical as possible. I have not yet made this adjustment myself, but will at some point...



Hope this helps Good Luck!
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  #55  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:36 PM
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That's a pretty good post, del.
Brake Calipers - At first, we used the 4WD (S-10) style. I have them on my Galaxie. Then, Scarebird suggested using 2WD calipers. Turns out, the difference is where the banjo bolt connects to the caliper. 4X4 calipers connect on the back side (facing the spring). 2WD caliper banjo holes face the rear.

The same hose is long enough to fit either caliper but fitment is better on the 2WD version because the hose is out of the way.

Wheel tracking is identical as evidenced by the tire-to-upper 'A'arm clearance.

You're looking for the largest booster that will fit. The part number depends on who you buy it from. Make sure you get an 8" Dual Diaphragm booster and a 1" bore M/C <--I like this one because it has 3/8" IFF ports on both sides. - Dave
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  #56  
Old 08-06-2018, 04:23 PM
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What is the difference between "Loaded" and "unloaded" calipers?
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  #57  
Old 08-06-2018, 04:31 PM
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Default Del's Disc Brake Converson

The difference between "loaded" and "unloaded" calipers is simply what is included with the caliper. Most parts stores offer a "loaded" caliper, which includes the brake pads, clips/pins, and other necessary hardware needed to do a brake job on your own. "Unloaded" is minus those parts. Which means you have to order them also...
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  #58  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:11 PM
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Default 58-60 Disk brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
That's a pretty good post, del.
Brake Calipers - At first, we used the 4WD (S-10) style. I have them on my Galaxie. Then, Scarebird suggested using 2WD calipers. Turns out, the difference is where the banjo bolt connects to the caliper. 4X4 calipers connect on the back side (facing the spring). 2WD caliper banjo holes face the rear.

The same hose is long enough to fit either caliper but fitment is better on the 2WD version because the hose is out of the way.

Wheel tracking is identical as evidenced by the tire-to-upper 'A'arm clearance.

You're looking for the largest booster that will fit. The part number depends on who you buy it from. Make sure you get an 8" Dual Diaphragm booster and a 1" bore M/C <--I like this one because it has 3/8" IFF ports on both sides. - Dave
So 8" booster and since re-using the stock pivot bracket from the old setup, beyond connecting lines you don't need anything new, but the booster, proportioning valve, and MC?

Seen some after market boosters that have a new pivot bracket on them although geometry may be way off the TBird design.

What is the reason for spacing the new booster out from the reused stock pivot brackets? Is there a way to eliminate the spacing instead?

Asking because I have tall valve covers and from pics it looks like the new booster is close to stock rear valve cover, though maybe just the camera shot angle..

Thanks for the information. So much easier than putzing around with a hodge-podge of parts to try to make something work.

Mike
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  #59  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:26 AM
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S-10 brakes come in a variety of choices. There are dozens of pad offerings at Rockauto.com. My personal preference includes the softest pads I can find because they normally stop in the shortest distance and they don't squeal. The drawback is, they wear out faster.

When two surfaces rub together, the softer usually wears first. I have no problem sacrificing pads in favor of rotors. Pads are designed to be changed very easily and they're inexpensive. I don't use my classics for daily driving so even the softest brakes last a very long time.

When purchasing 'loaded calipers', the pads are not negotiable. What you see is what you get BUT as Ray pointed out, all the parts are there.

What 'parts?' Depending on which calipers you buy, some will come 'bare bones' with a piston and a boot inside a casting. Other choices may or may not include steel bushings, rubber grommets and pins in the cast iron holes. So, price is only consideration, depending on what is included in the caliper. If your choice is 'bare bones', Rockauto.com offers this Delco (18K256X) bushing kit for $4.22 but it does both front calipers. It includes these parts:



We're not quite done. Each caliper needs two pins like this Carlson H5004 kit for $2.07. You need two:



Boosters... Make no mistake, an 8" booster is totally different from an 8" Dual Diaphragm booster. If your Squarebird came with a booster under the hood, it was a 10" (for drums). A dual diaphragm 8" outputs far more boost than the single diaphragm 10" and the major diameter IS 10". This is the largest 'bolt-on' booster that will fit your Squarebird.

The brake pedal support/manual M/C holes just make it above the steering column's shift lever. To fit the OEM power brake booster, Ford raised the firewall bracket 5".

If you're lucky enough to have a firewall bracket riveted to your OEM booster, that hardware can be re-used for a new booster while maintaining stock brake pedal hardware. The hole centers are different from the rivet centers so I suggest you use square tubing between the firewall bracket and the new booster. 1-1/2" square tube will do it but is tight for positioning the nuts inside. 2" works too as it leaves more room inside for your fingers. If you go with 1-1/2" square tubing you will also need to cut down the booster's input shaft. It's not a big deal (I did that to mine) and it places the booster that much closer to the firewall. I doubt you will have problems with your valve covers, either way.

If you don't have a firewall bracket, either make one or buy the ABS system which includes all that. - Dave
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  #60  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:32 PM
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Yeah, I always figured the harder the brake pads, the faster you replace the rotors too. And these cars don't wrack up miles like a commuter car.

Car is at my hobby farm 140 miles away and had my brother go take a look at it and send me some pics cuz I forgot what brake setup looked like.

Car is PS, PB and AC and is a 59 with a 68 390 in it. AC still all there and would like to keep it if repairable, maybe with newer style compressor. (black interior...)

So, it has the bellows type booster under the dash and MC is directly mounted to firewall.

I suppose to retain big firewall mounted AC box, I will either have to just go with dual chamber MC mounted as original, or get another brake mechanism with the brackets.

What results can be expected if newer dual MC used with the original bellows type booster under dash?

While I understand the 8" dual diaphragm is likely the best option, don't think that will clear the AC box, even with later(?) external booster brackets that move booster up and forward.

If it is absolutely necessary to replace the bellows type assist with a modern design booster, what would be the braking result if space only allowed a 6-7 inch street rod type booster?

They come with GM type MC and brackets bearing some resemble to bracketry used on Del's car and look like they would more easily clear both the AC box and tall valve covers.

Still would provide some assist, though it would require more pedal effort than an 8", wouldn't it?

Thanks, Mike
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