Engine not turning over. Getting some sparks.

[simplyconnected]

Gerald, I am curious as to how much of this work will you do? Have you rebuilt an engine? How about tools and facilities? I realize it's 90*F+ out there, but it's also the second week in August, and turn around time is not fast.

John is right about 'clean up'. It is 85% of the work. Pulling the engine is fast, disassembly goes rather quickly, but clean up is slow and tedious. When you are ready to reassemble, all the parts must be there, and in like-new condition.

Engine plants assemble, run, then rack & ship their engines. Sometime later, they are stuffed in cars. When you do yours, run it as soon as you can. Don't let it sit for months with engine-build lube. The oil pump needs to fill all the galleys and bearing pockets, and the lifters need to pump up. Then, you can wrap the engine for future use.

Newly overhauled 'dry' automatic transmissions, are the same story. - Dave

[60 T-Bird]

I'm just wondering if it is something as simple and a poor battery cable. I had a ground cable go out and was pulling my starter on my truck. I put in another starter and the same thing happened. A $5 ground cable fixed the problem...Man...did I feel stupid.
By the way, I enjoyed reading here about naming your car. I thought I was the only one. I named mine Angelina, after you know who. However...if you saw her now you would think her name was Phillis Frump...

[JohnG]

You need to get the starter motor question resolved, good or bad.

Get the starter motor out. Get out the Yellow Pages. Look under "Auto Electric". Find an "old school" shop that is grungy and works on starters, generators, alternators and so on. No web site is a plus. Take yours in and plunk it on the counter and ask them to check it out and do whatever it needs. Even if it is not the cause of your car not starting, it can be put into #1 condition.

John

[simplyconnected]

Excellent advice, JohnG. Starter motors and generators get internally filthy with pieces of brush material, which is highly conductive and will lead to an early failure.

My auto electric shop is run by a classic car enthusiast, and he bends over backwards when anyone comes in with old parts. He laughs when someone shows up with a chromed alternator, but he fixes them too.

If I might add to John's suggestions: PROPERLY troubleshoot the Start Circuit. This is a high-current situation, so all connections must be tight.

It takes two wires to complete a circuit (as 60 T-bird said), so the NEG wire is equally as important as the POS. I run my #4AWG ground wire from the battery to, as close to the starter motor as possible. (Bell housing bolts work well.) That way, more heavy current flows through copper, not iron.

After confirming your starter is good, replace your +12 wires with red #4 THHN wire (sold by the foot at Lowe's or Home D).

With this size wire, you can use a little extra length, and 'train it' away from manifolds, and allow 'extra' for vibration. I come from the starter post to an empty tapped hole on the engine, and strap the wire to that, before going to the starter relay. That relieves any strain on the lug.

Auto parts stores sell quality #4 crimp-on 'ring' connectors with proper-size bolt holes. Either stake the connectors, or mash them with a hammer.

The starting circuit only has three parts; battery, starter relay, and starter motor. With tight connections, troubleshoot with the headlights on so you can see the condition of the battery while starting your engine. If lights barely dim but the starter tries, the starter brushes or starter relay may be bad. You can jump across the big relay posts with a booster cable to determine, which.

Of course, if the headlights nearly go out, that indicates a big voltage drop. You may have a bad battery or the starter motor is shorted. - Dave

[Techie5262]

Hey guys. Sorry I have not had time to reply back lately. I did get the starter taken off and tested on Monday like I said I would. Well, I wanted to make sure functionality wise it was fine, seeing as how another issue with it was noticed after finally getting the darn thing out. The whole top half strip of the teeth on the starter is completely stripped off. I would figure that I would still hear the starter turning and spinning though at the least which I did not, so I will have to look into replacing the wires as well as getting this starter rebuilt (Alot of buiid up on and in the starter, and the teeth as you now know need to be replaced).

Never have rebuilt an engine before, just have done minor things. Not completely sure yet how much of it I will want to try to do myself, or if I will let the pros (Shops) do all the work for me.

Yeah the heat was pretty bad this whole week. Monday was killer laying on hot asphalt to get a darn starter off, lol. This one sits outside and is covered up. The red on is actually in a sealed unit, so getting under it is alot easier, lol.

I got some more pics taken. Some are on my online profile. Not sure if you guys would just want the link to that, or if you prefer I use some upload place to upload the photos and just send the pic url's. Went ahead and got some pics of the engines as well, so you can see that the red one's was modified a bit, although I do have to admit, it still runs and sounds great (Even though I do not like that they modded it).

I am glad to say my shop manual arrived a few days ago, as well as one of the 2 original Halo mirrors I bought, and the quarter panels. I am unfortunately still waiting for the door seals to arrive but the Trunk one arrived some time ago. Also went ahead and ordered in the hood insulation, and found a really good air cleaner. It is red so it will need to be repainted blue, but has no dents and only a little rust inside.

[JohnG]

Given what you said about the starter, you might want to take a good look at the flywheel and see what kind of shape the teeth on it are in. The teeth should be exposed with the starter out; also there is an inspection plate on the bottom of the bell housing that is easy to remove.

[YellowRose]

Engine not turning over. Getting some sparks.

Hi Gerald, Thanks for the update on what you found and I hope all goes well with getting it fixed. As for posting pictures, you can post the link to them here. Or if you need to, you can create an account on a picture hosting website like Photobucket and post the link them there on here. I am sure the guys/gals, will like to see what you have.

[tbird430]

And paint the air cleaner WHITE!!

[Techie5262]

Yeah, I will head out to the birds on Monday to check out the teeth on the Flywheel. Thankfully there is an extra one sitting in the trunk of the red one for some reason, if I end up needing it.

Will try to get signed up for a photo site sometime to get the pics on there so that I do not have too many of the pics sitting on my profile pages.

[Techie5262]

Lol, KK, will remember to paint the air cleaner white.

[simplyconnected]

Gerald, I don't mean to put the cart before the horse, but if your flywheel ring isn't too bad, it can be turned around.

It is always easier to replace with a new flex plate or flywheel, but if cost or availability is prohibitive, a simple hand grinder can take the tack welds down:

Mark the ring, grind the welds, tap it off with a hammer. The ring is heat treated, so don't use excessive heat or force. It should come off/on fairly easilly once the welds are broken free.

Turn the ring gear around and put it back in the same place. Tack-weld in the original places too, because the flywheel is balanced. The idea is to 'trap' the ring. Too much weld will ruin the heat treat. Without welds, the ring will not spin on the F.W., but it will walk away from the starter.

[Techie5262]

Hey guys. Might be willing to sell both.

Hey, I thank all of you for the time you have taken to help me with getting work done on these cars. I have been so busy lately that the cars just sit there, and I am afraid that I may not have the time that they require anymore. For both project cars and whatever else I bought for them, for all of that, titles included, I am willing to sell it all for $9,000. I posted an ad in the For Sale forum. Hope someone can give me what I want for them. Anyways, thanks again for all the help, guys!! I hope to jump back into working on '59 Tbirds sometime in the future.

Ger012790@yahoo.com