Starter spins, but the engine won't crank

[relpats_eht]

Hello,

I've been working on restoring my 59 for about a month or so now. It was starting fine (with a bit of a press on the gas) up until two days ago. I hadn't started it up for a week and now it just won't crank. The first few times I tried to start it, it almost turned over, but now, no matter what I try I only get the whine of the starter.

According to the shop manual, the problem is a worn or dirty starter. Has anyone here had a similar experience? Is there any other possible problem? Could it just be low battery voltage (I just found out my voltmeter is broken, so I can't test it at the moment)?

If I do have to clean or replace the starter, are there any hints for the removal? The starter is original, so a replacement probably wouldn't be a bad idea at this point, rather than cleaning the old one up. Could anyone show me where I could get the part?

Thank you,
Andrew

[scumdog]

Try a good battery first BEFORE ripping things apart.

[simplyconnected]

I agree. Prove your parts to be bad before replacing them, and be sure your electrical connections are solid and clean.

Having said that, if your starter motor is original, a little preventive maintenance will save you about $100 down the road. Most folks wait until catastrophic failure which always happens on Sunday (when stores are closed) and far away from your tools. This makes NO sense to me because brushes are about eight bucks and you can change them.

There is an inspection plate covering the brushes, held on by one screw. To remove your starter, turn the steering wheel so the tie rods are clear of the starter motor. It's still a tight fit.

CLICK HERE to see your starter motor PM'd. All the parts are available at many vendors. - Dave

[KULTULZ]

Usually, if a starter motor spins freely and there is no ring gear engagement (high RPM spin) or partial engagement, either the starter drive is defective and/or the flywheel ring gear is damaged.

On present day starter motor remans (of this style), the starter drive is not supplied but must be purchased separately.

While out, replace brushes/bushings as suggested and perform a voltage drop test (for starter drag- excess current draw) when reinstalled.

It used to be most box stores could perform a drag test on the bench.

[simplyconnected]

...According to the shop manual, the problem is a worn or dirty starter. Has anyone here had a similar experience?...

This is true because it is an Inertia Starter Motor. That means there is no solenoid or fork to engage the Bendix gear. If the gear is extremely dirty, the abrasive resistance can trump inertia and hold back engagement. This is a very common failure.

The very last picture (on page 4 of my site) shows the affected area to clean. - Dave

[DKheld]

I have the 352 and just removed the starter on mine. Dave is right on about removing it. Turn the wheels to the left and you will be able to get it out by dropping it down and turning it 90 degrees. It is a tight fit and HEAVY - even worse re-installing it.

Dave/John - isn't the bendix held on by a split pin or cotter pin that could have come loose and let the bendix spin free?

If that is the case you may be able to remove your inspection plate and find the bendix behind the flywheel. That would be a real puzzle to fish it out. You can also check your ring gear teeth from the inspection plate.

Hopefully it's just dirty and a good cleaning will take care of the problem. The MG's I restore use the same principle and 99% of the time the bendix is gummed up or the shaft is rusty.

Eric

352 w/ inspection plate removed.



Ford inertia starter

[simplyconnected]

...Dave/John - isn't the bendix held on by a split pin or cotter pin that could have come loose and let the bendix spin free?..

Eric, this pin is serious business as it delivers ALL the torque from the Starter Motor to the flywheel...


It's held captive by that big spring:

[scumdog]

Eric

352 w/ inspection plate removed.

You need to replace that torque-convertor nut ;-)

(And my garage floor looks a bit like that under my T-bird too)

[simplyconnected]

Alright Tom, enough detective work. I know Eric had just replaced his engine. This picture could be part of that swap. If it is, the floor looks fantastic! - Dave

[DKheld]

Heh heh - yup Dave - that pic was part of the engine swap photos but was just what I had handy.

Thanks for keeping an eye out Tom - any time you guys see me messing up give a shout - I don't mind at all - in fact it's like having a friend here keeping an eye out for you but you're miles away!!

The floor would have been worse if I hadn't burned and thrown 3 quarts of oil in the 20 mile trip over to my brother-in-laws garage where I worked on it. Seriously - left with a full oil pan and only drained about 1 1/2 quarts in the drain pan.

Great pic on the starter bendix Dave - the MG bendix has a screw on tip on the armature that is held in place by a cotter pin. Already have the starter on the Tbird back in so just couldn't remember.

Eric

[simplyconnected]

I was just ribbing Tom because he really is a detective.

I wish I live closer to Eric so I could help with that swap. You did a nice job and I'm glad things went smoothly for you, Eric. Besides that, I really LOVE North Carolina. It starts out at sea level and goes high into the Appalachian Mountains with plenty of rivers and lakes; something for everyone to enjoy. - Dave

[DKheld]

I was just ribbing Tom because he really is a detective.

Ah-ha - I get it now -

I wish I live closer to Eric so I could help with that swap. You did a nice job and I'm glad things went smoothly for you, Eric.

Yea man - me too! Errrr - I won't mention the radiator foaming, failed temp sensor, overheating, crack at the radiator inlet (probably because of the heat), timing pointers that are different, insulation cracking off the starter lead, vacuum port on the wrong end of the new intake manifold, carb spacer breaking and studs being too short - but the actual swap did go rather easily - thanks! I'll update my engine swap post on the rest of the stuff later. (and you must be psychotic Ooops I mean psychic because you guessed part of my "upgrades" without even knowing - you'll see)

Besides that, I really LOVE North Carolina. It starts out at sea level and goes high into the Appalachian Mountains with plenty of rivers and lakes; something for everyone to enjoy. - Dave

Very true - now if we could just figure out a way to get from one end to the other in less than 8 hours - ok - legally in less than 8 hours that is -

Hope you got your starter up and working Andrew.

Eric

[relpats_eht]

I had time today to get a new voltmeter. The battery seems to be running strong, so it looks like I'm going to be cleaning that starter this weekend instead of installing disc brakes and a dual master.

Thank you all for the advice. I'll let you know how it goes.

[relpats_eht]

Hey guys,

So, it looks like when I said it was the original starter, I spoke too soon. One of the previous owners must have swapped it out. I pulled the starter and found myself looking at this:



(The writing says "American Motors 318972 USA 7KC")

This seems to be a relatively common replacement starter motor. It is a bit dirty in there, so I'll clean it up and put it back all the same, but this model doesn't look like it would have the problems of the Bendix starter that comes stock.

Is anyone familiar with this style starter? Any advice on what else I should check for?

[simplyconnected]

I hate to say but, your engine is not a stock Squarebird engine. That starter came years later, and yes, I am familiar with it.

Ground the case and put power to the post. Does that clapper slam in? That solenoid operates a fork which sends the bendix gear into the flexplate gear.

If the bendix never goes in but sits there and spins, that could be a problem.

Another problem can be, a broken bendix gear. When they go bad, you can spin them in either direction by hand.

I wish I knew you have this type of starter motor from the beginning. CLICK HERE

- Dave