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  • jopizz
    Super-Experienced


    • Nov 23 2009
    • 8317

    #16
    There's a large bolt right in the center of the balancer. You will need a large socket (I believe it's 15/16") and a breaker bar to turn it. Turn it clockwise if you are standing in front of the car.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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    • GeoffInCarlsbad
      Experienced
      • Jul 4 2015
      • 206

      #17
      One last question on this....

      should I disengage the belts for the fan and generator as well? i would think so, but I thought I would check....
      Geoff In Carlsbad
      1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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      • jopizz
        Super-Experienced


        • Nov 23 2009
        • 8317

        #18
        You don't have to. You should be able to turn it with the belts on. Disconnect the battery cable though just to be safe.

        John
        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

        Thunderbird Registry #36223
        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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        • GeoffInCarlsbad
          Experienced
          • Jul 4 2015
          • 206

          #19
          TDC Found

          Done. Used a Q-Tip to apply a white "dot" at TDC, using 0 degree tooth on the indicator. With Vacuum line disconnected and taped over, we got it to align perfectly.

          I added a Pertronix Ignitor Electronic Ignition module, and a complimentary Flamethrower coil.

          To turn the balancer, I raised the front end and used a 15/16" socket on a 17" breaker bar. Even though I removed the fan blade protector, the fan was still in the way. Tried removing the fan blade, but then realized the whole pulley had to come off of the water pump. I didn't want to mess with the belts so I just raised the front end to do it from the bottom.
          Geoff In Carlsbad
          1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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          • jopizz
            Super-Experienced


            • Nov 23 2009
            • 8317

            #20
            What did you set your timing to. The factory setting is 6 degrees BTDC. Most have found an improvement in performance setting it to around 10 degrees BTDC.

            John
            John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

            Thunderbird Registry #36223
            jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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            • GeoffInCarlsbad
              Experienced
              • Jul 4 2015
              • 206

              #21
              timing marks

              Hi Joe:

              Thanks for asking. Right now it is set to 0 degrees because I believe the shop manual specified 0 for the distributor 275.


              To set to 6 or 10 degrees, do I simply set my timing light dial to 6 degrees and re-align the dot to the 0 indicator?
              Geoff In Carlsbad
              1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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              • jopizz
                Super-Experienced


                • Nov 23 2009
                • 8317

                #22
                Centrifugal advance is different from ignition timing. I believe those settings are if you have the distributor off the car on a test stand. Above that chart it specifies the ignition timing as 6 degrees. I'm not familiar with the newer style timing light that you have. I just have the old style. I believe you are correct though. Just set the light for the advance degrees that you want and turn the distributor clockwise to advance it.

                John
                John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                Thunderbird Registry #36223
                jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                • GeoffInCarlsbad
                  Experienced
                  • Jul 4 2015
                  • 206

                  #23
                  Timing Marks

                  Yes, there is supposed to be a raised bump, but I also do not have one. I spun the balancer and ran my finger along the entire circumference. There are hash marks and an "XX", but nothing that really lined up with TDC. So I made my own mark using a Q-Tip and some white paint.

                  This weekend's small job is to set 6-10 degree BTDC, per Joe's recommendation. That should be as efficient as I can get before I start this winter's project: REBUILD! LOL! I figure once El Nino hits So Cal, I'll have lots of rainy days to work on her!
                  Geoff In Carlsbad
                  1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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                  • jopizz
                    Super-Experienced


                    • Nov 23 2009
                    • 8317

                    #24
                    Did you see any numbers on the balancer. It's possible someone replaced it with a balancer from a later model 390 that has the numbers on the balancer instead of the pointer.

                    John
                    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                    Thunderbird Registry #36223
                    jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                    • GeoffInCarlsbad
                      Experienced
                      • Jul 4 2015
                      • 206

                      #25
                      Timing Marks

                      Yes, there are a few #'s on the wheel, plus a series of "|" marks, in addition to the "XX" marks. I intuitively would think the "XX" were the mark to align, but there's just no clear indication in any documentation anywhere. So, I figure the paint dot I applied at TDC is as good as I am going to get. It trues up the max push by the cylinder to the "0" indicator.

                      Is this correct in your point of view?
                      Geoff In Carlsbad
                      1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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                      • jopizz
                        Super-Experienced


                        • Nov 23 2009
                        • 8317

                        #26
                        If you have numbers on the balancer then they are your timing numbers. If you also have numbers on your timing pointer than the balancer was replaced at some point. You can certainly do as you did and find true TDC rather than rely on the balancer. I'm not sure how you found true TDC but the way I do it is to turn the crank until the rotor points at the #1 spark plug terminal on the distributor cap. Then I remove the driver side valve cover and make sure the #6 valves are perfectly even with each other.

                        John
                        Last edited by jopizz; August 13, 2015, 12:12 PM.
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

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                        • GeoffInCarlsbad
                          Experienced
                          • Jul 4 2015
                          • 206

                          #27
                          Timing Marks

                          HI Joe:
                          Your method is new to me, and very interesting, and more fun! I had planned on taking off the valve covers and cleaning up the rocker arms (per Dave's earlier notes on changing oil pan gasket). So I can really learn how that all works too.
                          Geoff In Carlsbad
                          1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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                          • GeoffInCarlsbad
                            Experienced
                            • Jul 4 2015
                            • 206

                            #28
                            Timing Marks

                            Ok, reading the rest of your note....I found TDC by turning the crank until #1 Cylinder was fully extended (max compression) and marked the harmonic balancer in line with 0 degrees on indicator. I used both the internet, and a reference, indicating that is how to find the right timing.

                            Now, you bring up a good point to me, and that is that the distributor rotor aligns to the #1 plug wire while at top dead center. If that does not happen, then I would suspect I need to re-align my distributor?
                            Geoff In Carlsbad
                            1961 Thunderbird Convertible aka: Betty:cool:


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                            • simplyconnected
                              Administrator
                              • May 26 2009
                              • 8779

                              #29
                              The standard method of finding TDC is by using a spark plug hole stop (piston stop). Speed shops sell them.

                              You wrap white tape around the damper then send #1 piston down. Screw in the piston stop and keep cranking by hand until the piston comes up and stops. Make a fine line mark on the white tape at the pointer.

                              Now turn the crank in the opposite direction until the piston comes up and stops. Make another fine line mark at the pointer on the tape.

                              Remove the piston stop and replace the spark plug.

                              True TDC is exactly between your fine lines on the tape.

                              Since your engine is a 4-stroke, TDC comes up twice for every distributor (rotor) turn. John's method is right, when #6 valves are exactly between the exhaust valve coming up and the intake valve going down, your damper pointer should be at TDC and the rotor should point to #1 spark plug tower.

                              This proves the cam is in time with the crank AND the spark timing is correct.

                              If you ever do a timing chain change and those valves are not dead level with the crank TDC, your chain is off a tooth.

                              Some of the old 'brass cars' had no timing marks. They came with a rod you stick down one of the cylinders. Turn the crank until the marks line up with the spark plug hole, then you turn on the radio (any radio) and put it between stations to hear 'white noise'. As you turn the distributor, when the points open, it creates an audible 'TICK'. That's it. Tighten 'er down, your engine is in time. - Dave
                              Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                              --Lee Iacocca

                              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

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                              • Wingman65
                                Apprentice
                                • Sep 20 2015
                                • 38

                                #30
                                according to shop manual the XX on the damper is where you put it when removing and installing non-adjustable rocker arm shaft. I suppose this location has the least amount of lift anywhere on the cam.

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