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  • Howard Prout
    Experienced
    • Feb 11 2009
    • 443

    Thanks for the measurements, John. I see that a bracket is necessary to give some space for the bellows on the inlet side of the booster. It also appears that the bolt pattern is different on the booster than the master cylinder.

    Still waiting to hear from Scarebird re the availability of caliper mounting brackets for our squarebirds. Haven't found another source yet. Dave Dare, or anyone else, have you any suggestions?
    Last edited by Howard Prout; November 16, 2009, 01:18 PM.
    sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

    Comment

    • simplyconnected
      Administrator
      • May 26 2009
      • 8778

      Originally posted by Howard Prout
      ...Dave Dare, or anyone else, have you any suggestions?
      Howard, I put this off because I didn't want to add any confusion to the mix, BUT, I feel a need to explain about these booster brackets. They do much more than spacing out the booster unit.

      Please click on my site.

      I'm sure Scarebird has brackets, but just doesn't have them listed. They're stamped in presses, welded, heat treated, and plated. I have to believe they make each 'run' by the hundreds or thousands. Send them an email requesting availability. - Dave
      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
      --Lee Iacocca

      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

      Comment

      • Anders
        Super-Experienced
        • Jan 19 2008
        • 2213

        Originally posted by YellowRose
        I received a nice piece of news today about my rims that I got from Casey! I went to Southside Auto Parts here in San Antonio to look at some rims they were getting for me from their junkyard. They told me they have a lot of 14" disk brake configured rims off of various disk brake equipped Ford cars. When I got there, I showed them one of my "14x7" inch rims painted black on one side and yellow on the front. They asked me why I thought they were 7" rims. I told them because I had measured them. Ed asked me to show him how I measured them, so I took my tape measure and measured them from rim to rim. 7"... He said that I don't have 7" rims, that I have 6" rims and that I did not measure them right. He took my measuring tape and measured them inside the rims, from bead to bead, I think he called it. He said that is how you measure width and it measured 6"!! So I am happy as all get out that I have a set of four 14x6" rims!

        I did pick up two more 14x6" rims just like mine, disk brake ready rims. So now I have six, but the last two need to be sandblasted and painted. They sell their rims for $25 each, and if it has a tire on them, that is your responsibility to get the tire off it. Both those rims had old tires on them, which I had dismounted shortly after I bought them. It is possible that I might have three spare rims available, as I only need two for the front and one for a spare. Someone else may be interested in them first though. I will let you know.

        These guys have been in the junkyard business for years. They told me a few things about rims that was good to know. First of all, they said that 14x7" rims are something they rarely see. 14x6" rims are the common rims on these old cars back then. They also said, (as have several others) that if you have disk brake ready rims you do not have to worry about backspacing or offsets. They will work on our Squarebirds. They also said that many rims from the early '70's into 1980 that are off disk brake equipped Ford cars will work on our Squarebirds. Here is a list they gave me.

        '72-79 Torino & Ranchero rims. '71-73 Mustang rims. '71-79 Cougar rims. '75-80 Granada and Monarch rims. '77-'79 Tbird rims. They said those cars all used the same rims. They also said they are still fairly common rims to find and they have them. It is just a matter of them digging them out of their stuff and off their cars. They do not crush rims when they crush their cars. They told me that they parted out a '58 Tbird sometime in recent months and that people got a lot of good parts off it before it went to the crusher. I need to ask them if they have the VIN # for it. If they do, I will see if I can get it.

        So there you have some more rims to looks for, and all those above, they claim, will work on our Squarebirds, with our original spindles. No need to swap out them. I guess one could also pull the disk brake system off any one of those cars, refurbish it and run it on our Tbirds. I don't know if I want to rely on a set of disk brakes that might have been sitting in the elements for the last several years or decades though. However, I guess one could get all the parts new for one of those cars listed above from an auto parts store....
        Perhaps this company have what we need.
        sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth":)
        http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

        Comment

        • Howard Prout
          Experienced
          • Feb 11 2009
          • 443

          Originally posted by simplyconnected
          Howard, I put this off because I didn't want to add any confusion to the mix, BUT, I feel a need to explain about these booster brackets. They do much more than spacing out the booster unit.

          Please click on my site.

          I'm sure Scarebird has brackets, but just doesn't have them listed. They're stamped in presses, welded, heat treated, and plated. I have to believe they make each 'run' by the hundreds or thousands. Send them an email requesting availability. - Dave
          Super site, Dave. I certainly hadn't realized that that there was a change in mechanical advantage built into the booster brackets. The K-H booster in my vehicle just adds vacuum assist to the standard mechanical system but uses a 1 1/16" bore master cylinder rather than a 1" bore MC. Ray has talked to OldIrishDave (OID) about booster brackets that will work on our vehicles with A/C. Apparently OID thinks he can find a solution for us. I understand that OID has had some computer problems lately and hasn't been able to answer emails, etc.

          However, I was asking about the caliper mounting brackets. It seems Scarebird isn't offering the kit he had for squarebirds anymore. The only options I can find at the moment are complete kits from Thunderbird Ranch or DropNStop. When I add in the freight to NY, these cost $100 to $150 more than the Scarebird kit and buying the rest of the parts locally. I originally thought about using a SSBC kit but then I would have to change the sway bar and my recently acquired 14" x 6" rims (thanks to Ray). I just had a closer look at the DropNStop kit and am now wondering if it has the same issues as the SSBC kit. Has anyone installed the DNS kit on their squarebird?
          Last edited by Howard Prout; November 16, 2009, 08:12 PM. Reason: additions
          sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

          Comment

          • ncbird
            Experienced
            • Jan 5 2008
            • 390

            alternate source

            Howard, I was reading my new Street Scene magazine last nite and noticed an ad by ECI saying they had a disc brake kit for our birds. I have one of their kits on my 35 roadster and like the quality. I brought up their site and it doesnt show them specifically but has a kit for 57 - 64 fords. I think this matchs what scarebirds site has. I do know that the Street Scene add specifically says they have kits for our cars. You may want to contact them and get clarification. If I go to brackets instead of spindles theirs would be the first kit I would go to. They also have a lot of MC/booster kits. Grant

            Grant
            NCbird on the Coast of NC
            "Dads Bird" for my father

            Comment

            • Anders
              Super-Experienced
              • Jan 19 2008
              • 2213

              Originally posted by ncbird
              Howard, I was reading my new Street Scene magazine last nite and noticed an ad by ECI saying they had a disc brake kit for our birds. I have one of their kits on my 35 roadster and like the quality. I brought up their site and it doesnt show them specifically but has a kit for 57 - 64 fords. I think this matchs what scarebirds site has. I do know that the Street Scene add specifically says they have kits for our cars. You may want to contact them and get clarification. If I go to brackets instead of spindles theirs would be the first kit I would go to. They also have a lot of MC/booster kits. Grant

              http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/early_for...nversions.html
              Scarebirds? Now that was new to me....
              sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth":)
              http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

              Comment

              • simplyconnected
                Administrator
                • May 26 2009
                • 8778

                Originally posted by Anders Myrberg
                Scarebirds? Now that was new to me....
                Anders, go to post #44. I have no love for Scarebirds even though I bought their products and am very happy with them. Their attitude is not real friendly, like they are doing YOU a favor by selling these brackets. At $155/pair plus $15 s/h, they make a lot. That's my experience with them. - Dave
                Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                --Lee Iacocca

                From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                Comment

                • Howard Prout
                  Experienced
                  • Feb 11 2009
                  • 443

                  Originally posted by ncbird
                  Howard, I was reading my new Street Scene magazine last nite and noticed an ad by ECI saying they had a disc brake kit for our birds. I have one of their kits on my 35 roadster and like the quality. I brought up their site and it doesnt show them specifically but has a kit for 57 - 64 fords. I think this matchs what scarebirds site has. I do know that the Street Scene add specifically says they have kits for our cars. You may want to contact them and get clarification. If I go to brackets instead of spindles theirs would be the first kit I would go to. They also have a lot of MC/booster kits. Grant

                  http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/early_for...nversions.html
                  Thanks for the info Grant. I called ECI (Engineered Components, INC., Vernon, CT 06066, 860-872-7046) and they do have brake conversion kits for 1958-60 Thunderbirds - the cost for the complete kit is $450 - the same as for 1955-57 Thunderbirds and 1957-64 Ford/Mercury. According to their web site:

                  "Basic kits - include caliper mounting brackets, attaching hardware, and bearing adapters where required.

                  Complete kits - include Basic Kit plus new rotors, new calipers with semi-metallic pads and mounting bolts, new inner and outer bearing and seals."

                  I didn't ask for the price of the basic kit but the cost of the Basic Kit for 1955-57 Thunderbirds and 1957-64 Ford/Mercury is $275 - I expect the price of the basic kit for squarebirds is the same. My analysis indicates for $175 difference in price you get parts that cost about $350 at NAPA or equivalent. So as I currently see it, if Scarebird does not have the caliper mounting brackets available, then the ECI Complete Kit is the best buy. But if Scarebird does make kits for the 1958-60 Thunderbirds available, it is more economical to buy his kit and buy the other pieces at some place like NAPA.


                  The squarebird kits use 1975-80 Granada/Monarch rotors and 1978-81 Camaro/Firebird calipers. I forgot to ask but from the pictures on their web pae, it appears that the calipers attach on the rear side of the spindle. The package weighs about 80 pounds. The complete package does not incude flex hoses, banjo bolts and possibly other misc. hardware that are readily available at auto parts store.
                  Last edited by Howard Prout; November 17, 2009, 04:25 PM. Reason: additions
                  sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

                  Comment

                  • Anders
                    Super-Experienced
                    • Jan 19 2008
                    • 2213

                    Originally posted by simplyconnected
                    Anders, go to post #44. I have no love for Scarebirds even though I bought their products and am very happy with them. Their attitude is not real friendly, like they are doing YOU a favor by selling these brackets. At $155/pair plus $15 s/h, they make a lot. That's my experience with them. - Dave
                    Sory, sorry, sorrrrrrry.....
                    I didn´t know there was anyone behind that name. I though it was miss-spelling of Squarebird, and I found it funny.
                    Sorry....
                    sigpic..."Lil darling Ruth":)
                    http://www.tbirdregistry.com/#33158

                    Comment

                    • ncbird
                      Experienced
                      • Jan 5 2008
                      • 390

                      Eci

                      Good info and analysis on the kits and I agree the complete kit would be the most cost effective if you can buy just the brackets from Scarebird. I would probably spend the extra for the brackets from ECI just because they have been around so long and I have a history with their products. Grant
                      Grant
                      NCbird on the Coast of NC
                      "Dads Bird" for my father

                      Comment

                      • simplyconnected
                        Administrator
                        • May 26 2009
                        • 8778

                        Yesterday, I sent a 'question' to Scarebird:

                        Dear scarebird,

                        I bought a set of these from you (for my '59 Galaxie) and they work well. Do you have a set for my '59 Thunderbird? I thought you used to sell them, but I don't see them anymore. Thanks in advance. - Dave

                        -simplyconnected

                        His reply today:
                        Dear simplyconnected,

                        yes, we cover 58-60; they are the same pieces you have now.

                        - scarebird


                        He is saying, my '59 Galaxie brackets cover the '58-'60 Thunderbirds as well, AND he has them for sale. He could be more specific because I believe the Mercury brackets are the same, too. - Dave
                        Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                        CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                        "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                        --Lee Iacocca

                        From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                        Comment

                        • Howard Prout
                          Experienced
                          • Feb 11 2009
                          • 443

                          Dave, I think it would be helpful if you could clarify which brackets you are referring to. I understood you to mean the caliper mounting brackets. Another forum member thought you meant the booster/MC mounting brackets. Which is it?
                          sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

                          Comment

                          • Guest

                            Hey Howard,
                            I think the bracket he is referring to is the one below! I could be wrong
                            Richard D. Hord
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                            • simplyconnected
                              Administrator
                              • May 26 2009
                              • 8778

                              Sorry for the confusion, guys. Richard D. Hord is right on.
                              Scarebird only sells the LH and RH spindle brackets (including bearing spacers). Now, that's a good thing because all the other stuff you need can be bought at your local discount auto parts store, or it can be found in bone yards. No shipping costs for heavy cast iron parts.

                              I bought the Scarebird brackets, and bolted them on my '59 Galaxie.

                              My local parts store is another story. My friend Rich owns it and he only employs REAL automotive guys. They looked at my old brake cylinder hose lengths and fixed me up with the new banjo bolt style hoses that the new S-10 calipers use. No core charge for the calipers, either. ...none of this, "what year is your car?" No, these guys are great. They gave me a choice of three different pads (good, better, best). Don't ask me how, but they had a batch of new 11" Mustang rotors for $12/each. Then they gave me a 10% discount for being in their 'club' of classic car customers. One time I needed a specific sized fan belt. They sent me home with four different sizes, and never wrote any of them up because they didn't want to do the paperwork for all those returns. When I returned with the unused belts, they hung them back up and only charged me for the one I used.

                              My auto parts store is in the middle of O'Riley's, Advance, NAPA, AutoZone, K-mart, Wal-Mart; all within two miles, so they have to be competitively priced.

                              So, to give you a detailed list of the conversion items I bought would be hard for me. I would need to refer to receipts and ask the guys for part numbers.

                              You will need to bring a measurement for your new brake hose to your local store. That is one reason why caliper location is important; being on the front or rear of the disk.
                              Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                              --Lee Iacocca

                              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                              Comment

                              • ncbird
                                Experienced
                                • Jan 5 2008
                                • 390

                                support the good guys

                                I am a firm believer in supporting the local guys. I will even pay more if it means I get the service I want and can keep a small business man going. I am unemployed and have applied to all the parts stores around here but keep getting passed over for 21 yr olds that help the corp diversity goals. Oh well I would probably go nuts asking the same quesions over and over. As for the old days I had a parts house in Pougheepsie NY when I lived up there that when you went in the back it was oiled pine floors, single overhead bulbs and dust...oh yeah and great old parts. My local carquest dealer is probably the best around here and it really pays to find someone you can build a relationship with. ok off my soap box. What is the consensus on the MC/booster choices? will a later bird or mustang combo use our existing brackets? You guys now have me reconsidering my priorities on the next project. Grant
                                Grant
                                NCbird on the Coast of NC
                                "Dads Bird" for my father

                                Comment

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