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Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

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  • Guest

    #76
    Rotor question

    Specifically what 11" rotors will fit the stock spindle on a 60 Tbird ? What years and what model ford use the same bearings and seals ?

    Thanks, Gary

    Comment

    • YellowRose
      Super-Experienced


      • Jan 21 2008
      • 17188

      #77
      Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

      Hi Gary,

      I cannot answer your questions, except to say that from what John Draxler of Tbird Ranch has told us, his disk brake conversion kit will work on the stock Squarebird spindles, and comes with everything you need. Rotors, calipers, bearings, seals, hoses, etc... He has not specified whose parts he is using. He also said that one does not need to replace their master cylinder with a two stage one, as I recall. See his web page and look down the left side for his entry on disk brake conversion for our Tbirds and click on it. He shows pictures and lists the parts and gives you the cost. You can spend twice that much at other disk brake conversion companies. I know because I have checked the prices. One of the rims that can be used are late '70's Granada rims, which is what I appear to have for my conversion. See the posts below this for additional information..

      thunderbird, tbird, classic, vintage, flairbird, t-bird, crafts, free, technical help, parts, squarebird, aerobird, woodburning, pyrography

      Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
      The Terminator..... VTCI #11178 ITC #6000 Yellow Mustang Registry (YMR) #12188
      Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

      https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
      Faye's Ovarian Cancer Memorial Website.
      https://faye.rayclark.info/index.html

      Comment

      • Howard Prout
        Experienced
        • Feb 11 2009
        • 443

        #78
        Originally posted by 1946hamm
        Specifically what 11" rotors will fit the stock spindle on a 60 Tbird ? What years and what model ford use the same bearings and seals ?

        Thanks, Gary
        From what I have been able to pick up, I believe that most kits are using 67-68 Mustang rotors. I assume the related bearings etc. work on the Tbird spindle. Also, they seem to be using S-10 calipers.
        sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

        Comment

        • Guest

          #79
          Hey Guys,
          Has anyone tried to contact www.ndgearheadscruiserproducts.com/index.htm. I scan through all your post and did not find it. I found it in Hemmings Motor News!
          Richard D. Hord
          Last edited by Guest; November 5, 2009, 08:09 PM.

          Comment

          • simplyconnected
            Administrator
            • May 26 2009
            • 8778

            #80
            Originally posted by YellowRose
            ...from what John Draxler of Tbird Ranch has told us...He also said that one does not need to replace their master cylinder with a two stage one, as I recall...
            Ray, I hope you mean, a two-stage power booster. If you do nothing else, a dual master cylinder should be your highest priority. As shown in previous pictures, a single stage power booster is appropriate because space is not an issue (even if you have A/C).

            I would NEVER recommend keeping your single M/C. Every car manufactured in the last 30-40 years has a dual M/C. - Dave
            Member, Sons of the American Revolution

            CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

            "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
            --Lee Iacocca

            From: Royal Oak, Michigan

            Comment

            • simplyconnected
              Administrator
              • May 26 2009
              • 8778

              #81
              Originally posted by 1946hamm
              Specifically what 11" rotors will fit the stock spindle on a 60 Tbird ? What years and what model ford use the same bearings and seals ?

              Thanks, Gary
              Gary, you need a steel spacer (shown in my previous posts) to go on your stock spindles. (The spacer is included with the caliper brackets.) Then, Mustang rotor bearings butt against the spacer, and the inner seal rides on the outside diameter of that spacer. When you put your castle nut on to tighten the rotor, it fits exactly like your drum setup with the same length of spindle sticking out. That means the tires are mounted in the same place, relative to using drums.

              Ford has used the same bearings and seals for many decades. For $3, I replaced my seals, but used my original '59 bearings in the Mustang rotors. They fit perfectly. So do Mustang bearings. Same, same.

              The same dimension seals may be called different part numbers. EG: some have a flange, some don't. Does it matter? No. They all work the same. I can use the seals for my '55 Customline on my '90 Mustang rotors. - Dave
              Member, Sons of the American Revolution

              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
              --Lee Iacocca

              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

              Comment

              • YellowRose
                Super-Experienced


                • Jan 21 2008
                • 17188

                #82
                Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                What I meant to say was that it was my understanding that this conversion could be made with the current master cylinder on your Squarebird. In my case, I guess that is the standard MC that came with my '59 Tbird. I gather that is a single stage. I understand that a dual MC is a better way to go.

                Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                The Terminator..... VTCI #11178 ITC #6000 Yellow Mustang Registry (YMR) #12188
                Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
                Faye's Ovarian Cancer Memorial Website.
                https://faye.rayclark.info/index.html

                Comment

                • Howard Prout
                  Experienced
                  • Feb 11 2009
                  • 443

                  #83
                  Originally posted by simplyconnected
                  Ray, I hope you mean, a two-stage power booster. If you do nothing else, a dual master cylinder should be your highest priority. As shown in previous pictures, a single stage power booster is appropriate because space is not an issue (even if you have A/C).

                  I would NEVER recommend keeping your single M/C. Every car manufactured in the last 30-40 years has a dual M/C. - Dave
                  Dave, you just messed me up again - it's not hard to do. I had just become comfortable with the decision NOT to change the braking system on my car and then your post comes along. Now I am undecided again. I guess we all struggle with the dichotemy between originality and safety. I fight this all the time. In some ways, my car is not as original, primarily because it is over-chromed and has radial tires. But in most other ways, it is original and I like it that way.

                  I understand the safety arguements for a dual master cylinder and I guess it would be prudent to make that change. Good-bye chromed master cylinder. This also raises the issue of replacing brake lines - now that I think of it, I don't think the ones on my car have ever been changed and must be getting suspect. A dual master cylinder would provide a safety measure if a brake line fails. So if I replace the master cylinder and the brake lines, then why stop there? The Kelsey-Hayes bellow type power brake booster on my car doesn't provide much, if any, assistance so a new booster would seem in order. If I go that far, then I may as well convert to disc brakes! Grrrr! My mind was made up and I was comfortable with the decision not to make the disc brake conversion but now I'm back to undecided.
                  Last edited by Howard Prout; November 6, 2009, 07:08 AM.
                  sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

                  Comment

                  • RustyNCa
                    Super-Experienced
                    • May 31 2007
                    • 1370

                    #84
                    Originally posted by YellowRose
                    What I meant to say was that it was my understanding that this conversion could be made with the current master cylinder on your Squarebird. In my case, I guess that is the standard MC that came with my '59 Tbird. I gather that is a single stage. I understand that a dual MC is a better way to go.
                    Yes it is.... I experienced a failure of a rear brake line on the 65 Special this last summer. Was behind a friend on mine that had his 56 BelAir Convertible on it's very first outing from being repainted (Pretty rare rig, he has is for sale for 80k....). We pulled off the freeway together, stopped at the light, he went to get fuel, I went on toward home. Came up the next turn to my house, and the next time I used the brakes...moved into the turn lane, applied brakes to slow down and had zero brakes... and I mean zero, didn't even slow the car at all.

                    Had the kids and lady in the car, blew through the intersection and swung off the next street which happened to be uphill thank god, and even at that missed the next street toward the house, still was to fast....

                    The 65 which was 100% original now has a Mustang dual master on it....

                    All I was picturing in my head was if the brakes had failed one stop earlier..... I would have plowed into the back of his car with his kids in it, and my car full also at probably 50 MPH.....

                    Dump the single master ASAP

                    Man, that reminds me I need to convert my son's 65 over to a dual master.....
                    Last edited by RustyNCa; November 6, 2009, 02:17 PM.

                    Comment

                    • simplyconnected
                      Administrator
                      • May 26 2009
                      • 8778

                      #85
                      Originally posted by simplyconnected
                      Howard, first off, that is correct. We are completely changing an inferior stock brake system with a modern system that works FAR better. This brake system will put you through the windshield while it stops straight as an arrow...
                      Howard, I don't sell any of this stuff. If I did, I could make a bundle just on the fact that it stops your car much sooner, it is MORE RELIABLE (sorry for shouting), and the job can be inexpensive if you do the work yourself.

                      Chrome combos (booster & M/C) don't cost much more, if that's what you like. (Oldirishdave says his combo units are $25 more than zinc.)

                      SAFETY is the utmost importance of this thread. If you are happy with your system (such as it is), then keep it. Back in the day, it was on par with other braking systems. Today, it proves to be far inferior (relative to other cars who share the same road we do). When some idiot pulls in front of me and stops, I'm right with him. Other passengers in my car have commented about how they didn't think my car was capable of stopping so well. Literally, we're all in the same boat.

                      My suggestion: Change your brake system. I did and I couldn't be happier. It was the best change I ever did. I have confidence in stopping AND confidence in knowing, if a wheel cylinder or line ever fails, only half my brakes are affected. BTW, with a dual M/C, your brake lines are effectively doubled in size because there are two separate sets (front & rear). Total flow doesn't go through one 3/16" tube.

                      I also learned how easy it is to bend brake lines. It all depends on the hand tools you use, and the type of line you buy. Originally, I was going to use stainless. My cheap tools couldn't flare the ends. Then I discovered rustproof (copper impregnated) steel line. It's very easy to bend and double-flare. Got it at my local auto parts store. I never kinked one single bend using a pair of "3/16" Tubing Bender Pliers" (Lisle #44150).

                      Sorry if I messed anyone up. Regarding originality, your brakes can be returned at any time. I seriously doubt anyone will after using a modern setup. It's that good. - Dave
                      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment

                      • Howard Prout
                        Experienced
                        • Feb 11 2009
                        • 443

                        #86
                        Thanks Dave - I'm convinced. At the very least I will change the master cylinder and power booster. I see oldirishdave has a unit for 1957-59 Ford, Mercury, Edsel vehicles as well as the later Mustangs. I think the weight of our cars is more like the bigger Fords so I'm wondering which unit to use.
                        sigpic "Old Betsy" - my '59 convertible J9YJ116209 Thunderbird Registry #33341

                        Comment

                        • YellowRose
                          Super-Experienced


                          • Jan 21 2008
                          • 17188

                          #87
                          Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                          I just spoke with Oldirishdave a bit ago about the same unit you are talking of, Howard. I had a very good conversation with him regarding that '57-'59 Ford, Mercury, Edsel unit. That is the one I am probably going to get. The problem is that he does not know if his combination power booster/dual MC will mount properly on a Tbird firewall that has the AC plenum in place. He does have a bracket on the end of it intended to lift it away from the exhaust of Y Block engines. Whether or not that will allow it to clear the AC plenum of AC equipped Tbirds he does not know. He also does not know of anyone in his city that owns a Squarebird equipped with AC that he can check his unit against. There must be someone in his city who is a Squarebird owner that he could contact to find out. Other companies who market this dual MC/power booster sell an offset bracket, I think. I need to find someone who does. He also said that he did not think it was necessary to take out the Kelsey-Hayes or Bendix power booster that is attached to the brake under the dash. I think he said he had a Lincoln with one of those, and he just hooked his dual MC/power booster up to it. He does not recommend the 7" Mustang power booster be used on a Tbird or Big Ford, as I understood it. He said to use the 8" version because our Tbirds and big Fords are much heavier. I hope I got all this right. Down the road, I will probably switch out my single MC and add the power booster. That alone he said should give me better and safer braking. Later on, if I want to add the disk brakes, I will have half the battle taken care of and all I will have to do is add a disk brake kit and proportioning valve. He said a non-adjustable proportioning valve will do the trick. He has a lot of goodies in his eBay store. Here is the unit I like because it is chromed! It will look nice with the rest of my engine chrome!


                          Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                          The Terminator..... VTCI #11178 ITC #6000 Yellow Mustang Registry (YMR) #12188
                          Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                          https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
                          Faye's Ovarian Cancer Memorial Website.
                          https://faye.rayclark.info/index.html

                          Comment

                          • Guest

                            #88
                            Hey Guys,
                            I talked to Frank at GearheadsND today. He had a worlds wealth of knowledge he shared with me. There web site is: www.ndgearheadscruiserproducts.com
                            Here's what he had to say: 14" rims will not work with there system either. But 1969-1987 Ford 14" rims will work! You then can still use factory hub caps!
                            They supply spindle and all with there kits. You pick and choose adds, master cylinder, booster, etc...
                            He highly recommended duel master cylinder! If back fails front will still work, if front quits back will still work!
                            All parts are Ford and you can pick up replacement parts at any parts store!!!
                            CHECK OUT THERE WEB SITE!!!
                            Richard D. Hord

                            Comment

                            • YellowRose
                              Super-Experienced


                              • Jan 21 2008
                              • 17188

                              #89
                              Disk Brake Conversion Discussion

                              While Richard was talking to Frank at GearheadsND, I was talking with Oldirishdave! Apparently, GearheadsND has the adapter I was talking about below, If this is the one that offsets the dual MC/Booster to clear the AC plenum...

                              AVAILABLE FOR ANY 57-59 FORD - Booster to Firewall Adapter
                              This item sells for $75.00, including shipping anywhere in the Continental US.

                              Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
                              The Terminator..... VTCI #11178 ITC #6000 Yellow Mustang Registry (YMR) #12188
                              Contact me via Private Message for my email address, or Call (Cell) 210-875-1411

                              https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
                              Faye's Ovarian Cancer Memorial Website.
                              https://faye.rayclark.info/index.html

                              Comment

                              • simplyconnected
                                Administrator
                                • May 26 2009
                                • 8778

                                #90
                                Howard, I'm taking this off Oldirishdave's eBay site:

                                He uses MBM brakes (from North Carolina). They are guaranteed by MBM for life, against factory defects or faulty workmanship.

                                I believe Oldirishdave resides in New Mexico. Call him for detailed answers. I think your setup should cost ~$200 +25 s/h for a chrome combo (which includes a chrome two-stage booster, chrome 1" bore dual master cylinder, and all brackets and rods for your brake pedal). - Dave Dare
                                Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                                CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                                "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                                --Lee Iacocca

                                From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                                Comment

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