Water pump exchange

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Also what kind of fan shroud would you suggest and how does one improve cooling effectivity?

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

It's even worse than that, John...
"High-flow thermostats from Milodon greatly aid the correct functioning of a high-performance cooling system. They're engineered to warm the engine to a proper operating temperature without making it run hot enough to lose power. Also, the "Balanced Sleeve" design equalizes the pressures exerted on the thermostat. This counters the undesired effect of increased flow from a high-volume water pump, which actually tends to hold a stat closed."
Summit price is $14.95. - Dave

Nice one! Searched for the proper type on Summit but did not find one for '59 Ford. Is it possible to use other type to substitute?

[jopizz]

I've always used the rebuilt water pumps and have not had any problem with them. With the rebuilt pumps you are pretty much assured of getting the correct housing. With a new pump being made overseas I have no idea how well it will fit.

John

[JohnG]

you said your water in the expansion tank was only 1/3 from the top. I do not believe you want it any higher than that and indeed may want it lower. Dave and others may want to comment.

As your engine heats all your coolant up, it will expand some. This will put more pressure on the tank , possibly causing leaks in time. Some of this depends on your cap being 13 or 7 psi rated, as well.

If there is a decent buffer of air in the tank, then it will compress, effectively absorbing that increase of coolant volume and making life easier for the tank. Air is much more compressible than liquid antifreeze/water.

As Dave and I have discussed, the old expansion tanks were a modest design and you do not want to cause them to leak by asking too much of them.

I am not sure what the intended or proper level of coolant in the tank is supposed to be but I am willing to be your are fine and might even consider a bit less. If you search thru enough threads in this Forum, you will find discussions of this.

[KULTULZ]

As your engine heats all your coolant up, it will expand some. This will put more pressure on the tank , possibly causing leaks in time. Some of this depends on your cap being 13 or 7 psi rated, as well.

If there is a decent buffer of air in the tank, then it will compress, effectively absorbing that increase of coolant volume and making life easier for the tank. Air is much more compressible than liquid antifreeze/water.

As the coolant expands from absorbing engine heat, the trapped air at the top of the radiator tank/expansion tank will be (should be) expelled through the pressure cap. This will prevent air from being circulated throughout the system.

As the coolant contracts after shutdown and cooling, air will be drawn in from the outside through the pressure cap (pressure relieved).

Tank seam failures are common as they are subject to corrosion over the years from non-service of the cooling system. Quality repros are available.

This is why a pressure check of the system and cap is important during a yearly coolant system check.

ADDENDUM

Think of a coolant pressure cap as like the pressure relief valve on your house water heater.

[KULTULZ]

Also what kind of fan shroud would you suggest and how does one improve cooling effectivity?

FOMOCO experienced severe overheating problems with the 58/59 BIRD and it was finally addressed on 1960 model run with a heavier radiator, five blade fan and shroud (AC equipped).

-1960 BIRD COOLING SYSTEM UPGRADE(S)-

Repro fan shroud available from here- http://www.tbirdparts.com/main.htm

[KULTULZ]

Searched for the proper type on Summit but did not find one for '59 Ford. Is it possible to use other type to substitute?

Contact these people- http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/...c22/index.html

[KULTULZ]

to the best of my knowledge the water pump only has two items that can deteriorate: the seal and the bearing.

John

Also the impeller according to poor design style and corrosion due to acidic coolant.

[KULTULZ]

One thing I noticed just today when started the cold engine was that the water was bubbling and splashing in the expansion tank even when it was still cold and so it was leaking out of the expansion tank quite heavily through the outlet hose.

Need to mention that the fan belt is still loose (not tightened sofar) and the water level in the tank is about 1/3 from the top. Still not sure if the water ought to bubble and splash in the tank like that...???

Coolant movement in the surge tank (cold engine) may indicate a stuck open thermostat. Bubbles in the coolant may indicate a head gasket leak (exhaust).

[KULTULZ]

Read this concerning an aluminum radiator selection over a copper/brass radiator-

http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/store/Custom-Radiators-Custom-Radiators/c255_286/p316/Custom-Radiators/product_info.html

Chemistry – Aluminum is more vulnerable to electrolytic corrosion than copper/brass because aluminum is a highly reactive metal. If the corrosion inhibitors are used up and the pH of the coolant drops to 7 or below, aluminum becomes a sacrificial anode and is eaten away resulting in radiator seam failure and coolant leak.

NOTE-

The above principle also comes into play with the addition of aluminum intakes, cyl heads and water pumps. The coolant has to be changed more frequently.

An aluminum radiator is much like a girl I knew once in Baltimore- Cheap and Easy...

[simplyconnected]

...As Dave and I have discussed, the old expansion tanks were a modest design and you do not want to cause them to leak by asking too much of them...

I think Ford saw the error in their ways with the original expansion tank design. They later changed it to include ribs for better rigidity.

The 'smooth top' design flexed too much, even with low pressure, causing cracks and leaks. The top surface is about (10 X 6) 60 square inches. 7psi produces about 400 pounds of pressure on the seams. The tank tries to deform itself into a sphere (a ball).

'Leaking surge tank' is a very common complaint. Another complaint is, after being 'fixed' it doesn't last long before another leak develops. Again, it's in the design.

Ford used the correct materials (copper and brass, soldered with lead). If it were made of aluminum, I couldn't fix it and the tank would probably be tossed. Ford's only mistake was not adding enough strength to compensate for the flexing. I just recently returned JohnG's tank after I added three bronze rods that pierce through both top and bottom of the tank. The rod ends and are soldered with silver alloy for strength. This will stop flexing and should end all future leaks due to cracking seams.

I purposely left the tank unpainted to show all the areas of work and the repair methods I used. The idea is simple; the rods act like a bucket with you standing inside pulling on the handle to lift yourself up.
CLICK HERE to see JohnG's expansion tank.
In the last picture, notice the radiator cap pressure is 13 psi. That exerts about 780 pounds of pressure on the seams. I pressure tested this tank @ 19 psi with no leaks. This kind of system pressure is absolutely necessary to keep the boiling point high. - Dave

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

you said your water in the expansion tank was only 1/3 from the top. I do not believe you want it any higher than that and indeed may want it lower. Dave and others may want to comment.

As your engine heats all your coolant up, it will expand some. This will put more pressure on the tank , possibly causing leaks in time. Some of this depends on your cap being 13 or 7 psi rated, as well.

If there is a decent buffer of air in the tank, then it will compress, effectively absorbing that increase of coolant volume and making life easier for the tank. Air is much more compressible than liquid antifreeze/water.

As Dave and I have discussed, the old expansion tanks were a modest design and you do not want to cause them to leak by asking too much of them.

I am not sure what the intended or proper level of coolant in the tank is supposed to be but I am willing to be your are fine and might even consider a bit less. If you search thru enough threads in this Forum, you will find discussions of this.

I understand. What I don't get is the fact that the coolant spits out of the expansion hose even when the engine is cold - that shouldn't be, should it? The cap should be closed when the engine is cold, no?

[simplyconnected]

Maybe your thermostat is missing.

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Repro fan shroud available from here- http://www.tbirdparts.com/main.htm

Thank you for the tip. $200 is pretty expensive for a piece of plastic... Is it possible to get it cheaper elsewhere?

And if not, how effective is the influence of the shroud on the cooling? I'll get the 6-blade fan for sure, but need to be sure that the $200 for the shroud are really worth. Fact is, I will be driving in the hot summer and anything that helps to cool the bird down is good...

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Contact these people- http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/...c22/index.html

Just got an answer from Summit - the high-flow thermostat for the '59 t-bird is Part number: MIL-16406