engine id and cam selection

[simplyconnected]

Your Squarebird came with either a MEL 430 or an FE engine. These are easy to distinguish by looking at the heads. On an FE engine, the intake manifold goes into the heads by about 1/3. In fact, the lifters are directly below pushrod holes in the intake manifold, not in the heads. Of course, you cannot see this without removing the valve cover.

From the outside, you can see where the FE intake manifold meets the head, and how the valve cover extends into the intake manifold. You could say they 'overlap'.

430s and FEs (352) have the same firing order: (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8). <--This is not a 351 firing order.

I would like to know more history of your engine but I really don't need it. Go through this procedure:
Remove the driver's side (LH) valve cover.
Rotate the engine until you see #6 exhaust valve close and the intake valve just start to open. Right then, when the two rocker arms are dead level, look at your timing marks. You should see TDC. If you do not see TDC, your cam is mistimed from the crankshaft.

If you do see TDC, at this point #1 is on its power stroke. Remove the distributor cap.
The rotor should be pointed directly at #1 tower when the points just open. #1 spark plug tower should be in front of #6 cylinder. If this is not true, reposition your distributer by lifting it up and moving the gear.

Pay attention to when the points open. That is when you get spark. If the rotor is between towers, the spark may go to the wrong spark plug.

All the above information needs to be followed to the letter. If the distributer does not easily drop into position, hand crank it while pushing down on the distributor. When the oil pump driveshaft aligns with the distributor hex, the distributor will drop right in place. Bolt it down.

If you have troubles with spark, pull the coil wire off, pull another spark plug wire off, put them together with a spare spark plug on the end, laying on metal. When you crank the engine, you should see a pretty blue spark jumping across the spark plug. If it's orange and weak, get a new coil, and make sure the - lead on your coil goes to the points. - Dave

BTW, I have removed your other copy of the identical post in Anything Goes.

[hunty]

I am dumbfounded. I bought a 1958 Tbird and have done a lot of work to restore it. Car was running great but now that I am almost finished it will not start anymore. Eventhouh the car was running I have gone back to the basics and checked plugs, spark, distributor, points.. checked timing, firing order ... nothing. I dont think its carburator as it will not fireup using starting fluid. The weird thing is that in looking for firing order and TDC info I come to find out that TDC and rotor firing position do not match my motor and what is supposed to be according to diagrams I see where TDC should line up with #1 cyl distributor position and #6 for exaust. On my Tbird TDC for #1 cyl lines up with pos #2 for power and #8 for exaust. Is it possible this is not a 352 engine which for what I told is the original to the car? Firing order matches a 352 engine and is correct in the sence that the car was running. I hope this makes send i just dont know how to ask the question any other way.

I had the exact same thing happen, after replacing the whole ingnition system it turned out to be the condenser( small silver can in your dizzy). I replaced it and it ran great.
Oh and I still had spark which was why it was the last thing we tried, it just wasn't enough to make it run

[YellowRose]

engine id and cam selection

Thanks, Andrew! I have passed this on to Robert in case this is what is causing his problem. It bears checking out.

[RBT2013]

Rotor position at TDC for #1 Cylinder

Thank you Andrew I will definitely try that today. I will replace the condenser. I am still confused and will ask the same question a bit differently making use of this picture which is what I have been using as a reference to confirm the firing order and rotor position for my 352 engine. Rotor position is the same for other Ford engines including the 390 and 351. The #1 plug wire goes to the tower located one position before the clip holding the distributor cam in place. This is not true in my case my #1 cylinder wire goes to the #2 tower position and then every other wire in the same firing order. To confirm If I set my engine to TDC power the rotor points to the #2 and then to the #8 in the next rotation. This is the way my engine had been running perfectly for the last yr. I was driving it , lost power and gradually hard a hard time starting until now which will not start at all. Reason I am confused is because even if my chain or distributor slipped , why is my engine #1 wire routed differently. Only reason I can think of maybe someone installed the distributor one tooth off ? . I am afraid to start messing around with removing distributor and putting everything per this image which I am not sure if its for my engine in the first place. I do believe I have the 352 engine as I am sure its the original motor to the car and its an H code per the VIN. Thank you for all your help.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/ford_tuneup54-59V8.htm

[simplyconnected]

Robert, I gave you detailed instructions on how to:

• Determine which engine you have,

• Determine if you have a healthy spark,

• Where timing locations should be for the cam, crank, where #1 tower is on your distributor cap and where it should be pointing.

Here is a picture of your distributor cap denoting #1 tower:


They mold this number into the cap because that is where #1 is for all FE engines. It did not change on millions of engines, and yours is no different. All of these instructions follow your Ford Service Manual.

If you feel uncomfortable making it conform to these specifications, by all means, let a qualified mechanic adjust the distributor. Moving your spark plug wires to different towers only screws up the rotor inside. - Dave

[RBT2013]

Problem solved . Thank you!!

Hunty and simplyconnected. Thank you for your help. As per Hunty first thing i did this morning was replace the condensor. Sure enough that was the problem. Almost a week of headaches and agravation for a $6.00 part which I suspected but I didnt think of replacing because it was new just 2 weeks. I will leave my distributor where it is. I am sure someone in the past had a reason for installing it that way and just tuned it to that tower. I am a happy camper. Thanks guys.
Robert

[hunty]

No worries mate, yeah I spent half a day a few hours from my house trying to fix it, and we had two other guys who where mechanics.
I wouldn't worry about your firing order, mine was wrong according to the manual pics but when a pulled the rocker cover everything lined up with number one(just not "one" on the dizzy).
I don't know about the state's but here I had to buy another one later on as the first one was the wrong one, I had to buy one to suit same model truck as there was no listing for the cars.

[simplyconnected]

If your condenser was bad you had no spark at all. It would have helped if you mentioned that.

Even so, I hope you get your distributor right because it does make a difference. Right now, your rotor is not sitting in front of a spark plug tower when the spark happens. You may see this if you look inside the cap; carbon will trail one edge of each tower electrode. This promotes a carbon track.

Glad to hear you got your spark back. - Dave

[hunty]

If your condenser was bad you had no spark at all. It would have helped if you mentioned that.

Even so, I hope you get your distributor right because it does make a difference. Right now, your rotor is not sitting in front of a spark plug tower when the spark happens. You may see this if you look inside the cap; carbon will trail one edge of each tower electrode. This promotes a carbon track.

Glad to hear you got your spark back. - Dave

Sorry but i've got to disagree with you here, mine had spark still, both out of the coil and number one plug. It was just so weak it wouldn't fire, it would try but I'd only get a pop, we all thought it was carb related at first.
Good to hear you got it running again.

[RBT2013]

Problem solved

Dave,
Actually I did have a spark. I menined that on my original post but I guess it was weak, but I thought a spark is a spark.. lesson learned. And yes I will eventually get that distributor fixed, right now I am just glad she is running. Thank you again.
Robert

[simplyconnected]

Sorry but i've got to disagree with you here, mine had spark still, both out of the coil and number one plug. It was just so weak it wouldn't fire, it would try but I'd only get a pop, we all thought it was carb related at first.
Good to hear you got it running again.

It's healthy to disagree mate, that's how we learn from each other.

If I don't see and hear that pretty blue, 'snap' coming from a spark plug, gapped at ~.030", I consider that 'no spark at all'. Orange colored spark doesn't do it, either.

I have seen where coil polarity was reversed for years, giving substandard spark. Just because it works does not mean it is right, but it's hard to argue with success.

Ultimately, the owner will do what he wants. After all, it is his car and his money. All I can do is suggest correct procedures based on the Shop Manual. - Dave

[hunty]

390 questions

Hi all you fe gurus I thought I'd ask here instead of starting another thread. What's the best fe to get, I can get a ribbed cobra jet block.
Would this be better in the long run or am I better to get a normal lateish 390 block. Aren't the cobra jet block not drilled for hydraulic cams? The bloke that has the engine reakons the ribbed blocks can be bored 80thou, which would give me a 410?
Cheers Andrew

[simplyconnected]

If you don't want a 390, get a 427. They use the same crank.

[hunty]

If you don't want a 390, get a 427. They use the same crank.

What's a 427 worth, over in the states. all the complete ones here are $10000. Hence the reason for the 390 I may be able to afford one lol