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'66 OEM relays

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  • Cwcb08
    Experienced
    • Oct 11 2016
    • 163

    '66 OEM relays

    Does anyone have the pinout diagram for this style of relay, I'm trying to replace mine with two new Bosch style 5pins and can't get a reading on my multimeter between any two pins





    I can figure white would be 86, the case would be 85, and brown would be 30, just want to figure out 87 & 87a?
    2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN
  • jopizz
    Super-Experienced


    • Nov 23 2009
    • 8317

    #2
    Check here:


    At the bottom are the Emergency Warning Relays.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

    Comment

    • Cwcb08
      Experienced
      • Oct 11 2016
      • 163

      #3
      My relays don't look like that, 1 is 4 wire the other is 3 that diagram looks like two 4 wire ("5pin") relays


      These are my relays below the colours are: 4 wire ( white-red, blue, white-blue, green-white ) 3 wire ( white-red, blue, orange )





      This is what I'm attempting to duplicate http://www.tbirdforum.com/forums/att...y-solution.pdf





      3 wire relay harness built and temporaily grounded to test:



      started the 4 wire harness before my daughter woke up from her nap:
      white-red will go to "30" blue goes to "86" black is "85"
      Last edited by Cwcb08; October 14, 2016, 12:38 AM.
      2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

      Comment

      • Cwcb08
        Experienced
        • Oct 11 2016
        • 163

        #4
        ya know..., typing all that and proof reading and taking photos, im not sure it matters what colour wire goes from 87a on each relay terminal to green-white/white-blue on the plug does it? they both get power at the same time and will continue to do so when "30" receives power after my mod
        2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

        Comment

        • simplyconnected
          Administrator
          • May 26 2009
          • 8779

          #5
          I'm editing this post to conform with Cody's actual findings as he disassembled his OEM relays...

          I'm happy you are using standard modern relays with plug-in sockets. They are only a few bucks per each set.

          In your case, you need two normally open contacts, so two single pole aftermarket relays must be used to replace one OEM 4-wire relay and one more single pole aftermarket to replace the 3-wire OEM relay. That makes three new relays. Connect both (30) together to make a common. Then, use each 87 to connect to 694 and 363 respectively.
          Of course you will need a good ground for your coil wires (85). Because these relays draw so little current, I would not use that funky sheet metal. Modern cars run a separate ground wire from the battery and so do I. Then, I connect it to everything along the way, clear to the tail light housings. You may find your fuel gauge will be more accurate, too.



          Before leaping out the plane, I want you to prove your new relays work. Wire the new sockets/relays per my drawing. Without power to your new relay coils, see if the commons are isolated from the NC contacts, then ADD +12 power and see if commons and contacts all have the same continuity.

          I never solder (and neither do OEMs). Instead, I use name brand (T&B, Buchannan, Ideal, Sta-Kon, Panduit, etc.) compression lugs (crimp connectors). For example, I get the yellow (#10AWG) size and cut the fork off. Then I put all the copper wires in the same barrel and crimp it HARD for the absolute best connection possible. If it needs black electrical tape for insulation, ok. If I only have two wires, I use the blue lugs. Let me know what you found. - Dave
          Last edited by simplyconnected; October 14, 2016, 11:06 AM.
          Member, Sons of the American Revolution

          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
          --Lee Iacocca

          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

          Comment

          • Cwcb08
            Experienced
            • Oct 11 2016
            • 163

            #6
            Originally posted by simplyconnected
            I got this scheme from the Ford diagram:
            like i said this diagram is not accurate to what is in my car
            i have one of these and the other is the 4 wire we are talking about
            Originally posted by simplyconnected
            I never solder (and neither do OEMs). Instead, I use name brand (T&B, Buchannon, Ideal, Sta-Kon, Panduit, etc.) compression lugs (crimp connectors). For example, I get the yellow (#10AWG) size and cut the fork off. Then I put all the copper wires in the same barrel and crimp it HARD for the absolute best connection possible. If it needs black electrical tape for insulation, ok. If I only have two wires, I use the blue lugs. Let me know what you found. - Dave
            so you would do what is shown in the top photo but cut off the right hand side at the insulation and then tape the end?


            the way i was looking at the relay i thought brown would be "30" because it was the biggest wire on the old one and appeared to always be hot in the car at the other end of the stock connector
            Last edited by Cwcb08; October 14, 2016, 09:13 AM.
            2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

            Comment

            • simplyconnected
              Administrator
              • May 26 2009
              • 8779

              #7
              Originally posted by Cwcb08
              ...so you would do what is shown in the top photo but cut off the right hand side at the insulation and then tape the end?


              the way i was looking at the relay i thought brown would be "30" because it was the biggest wire on the old one and appeared to always be hot in the car at the other end of the stock connector
              Yes, IF I wasn't using the stab. In other words, for a splice, I cut off the fork or ring. If you're going to USE the end then don't cut it off.

              Your original relays are trash, right? Scratch the side and top so you know the orientation. Take the can apart and show us some pictures. That will tell for sure, what's what inside. I always go by the connectors because colors mean nothing when vendors offer relays and harnesses.

              You may be able to ring the coil with your meter because no parts move inside. I believe the three-wire relay simply has one less contact. - Dave
              Member, Sons of the American Revolution

              CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

              "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
              --Lee Iacocca

              From: Royal Oak, Michigan

              Comment

              • Cwcb08
                Experienced
                • Oct 11 2016
                • 163

                #8




                2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

                Comment

                • simplyconnected
                  Administrator
                  • May 26 2009
                  • 8779

                  #9
                  This 3-pin relay's contact is NORMALLY OPEN, not closed! The pictures are excellent. Let's see the 4-pin relay...
                  Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                  CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                  "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                  --Lee Iacocca

                  From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                  Comment

                  • Cwcb08
                    Experienced
                    • Oct 11 2016
                    • 163

                    #10




                    2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

                    Comment

                    • simplyconnected
                      Administrator
                      • May 26 2009
                      • 8779

                      #11
                      Yes, these are the 4-pin relays. Again, excellent pictures.

                      I edited my post to conform with your findings. If I made a mistake, please let me know.

                      Rather than using Ford diagram colors and numbers, in this case I'd rather reference your original connectors and pig tails that came from your OEM relays.

                      Opening the relays told the whole story. I cannot thank you enough because the Ford diagrams are totally different. I know there were changes but the diagrams are ridiculous. - Dave
                      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment

                      • Cwcb08
                        Experienced
                        • Oct 11 2016
                        • 163

                        #12
                        thanks Dave! im re quoting this post so the photo is at the bottom of the thread and easy to reference

                        Originally posted by simplyconnected
                        I'm editing this post to conform with Cody's actual findings as he disassembled his OEM relays...

                        - Dave
                        2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

                        Comment

                        • Cwcb08
                          Experienced
                          • Oct 11 2016
                          • 163

                          #13
                          So next hurdle, the two relays control the front flashers (both sides), with one or the other removed the fronts don't work.


                          the 3 pin relay controls the rear flashers if I turn the flashers on then plug the relay into the socket everything works!, however if I turn them off and back on it doesn't work



                          I wonder if they are drawing to much juice, the upside I now know the ammeter works it jumps 1/4" left each flash when front and backs are going
                          Last edited by Cwcb08; October 14, 2016, 04:00 PM.
                          2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

                          Comment

                          • Cwcb08
                            Experienced
                            • Oct 11 2016
                            • 163

                            #14
                            ok another update, after speaking with simplyconnected yesterday he helped me sort this out, i now have functioning 4ways! my wiring and relays were correct, the problem was the " relays assy turn signal indicator " some PO (previous owner) swapped in a bosch 5pin relay however the oem relay is normally closed, they had it normally open, a few pokes with my multi meter i had it repined and all lights work correctly!


                            and in the spirit of oem relays, i had to change out the " low fuel level relay " to make the light go out, so here it is disassembled as well:










                            and this is the "interior light relay" i replaced this one so i have now have guage lights again:






                            Last edited by Cwcb08; October 16, 2016, 08:12 AM.
                            2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

                            Comment

                            • Cwcb08
                              Experienced
                              • Oct 11 2016
                              • 163

                              #15
                              Alright another question, I solve one thing another comes up, next I need to get the blower fan working (then maybe try and rebuild the window motors all the things I need for a safety certificate here in Ontario)

                              Is this where the heater resistor was? Some PO put a Bosch relay here ( colours are red, red-black, black-white, and then the green and brown that look to be grounded to the firewall)



                              I checked continuity at the switch and I get 0 and a reading when I flip it so I know at least that works sofar
                              2016 FORD F150 XLT 3.5 EB SPORT 302a - 2012 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2012 LEGEND DELUXE V-NOSE - 2008 KAWASAKI ZZR600 - 2008 FORD FOCUS SE - 2007 KAWASAKI ZX-6R - 2002 ARTIC CAT 500 - 1990 JOHN DEERE 265 - 1966 FORD THUNDERBIRD HARDTOP TOWN

                              Comment

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