Is it worth a Total Restoration?

[60 T-Bird]

I bought an all stock 1960 T-bird that had been stored in a storage unit for 10 years and a barn 20+ years before that. It has the rare 430 MEL motor. I was hoping that the engine could turn over but that was not to be. Parts are rare for the motor with a total rebuild kit for $1800. The machine/performance shop will do a bottom up with that kit for another $3500. Just about everything on the car is seized or trashed. The body is generally straight with bondo in the rockers. I'm figuring body/metal work to be around $3000 and another $3000 for paint. Then the interior is probably around $2000. Then of course running gear and electrical. I can bet $1000+ for that...I paid $1900 for the car, so I will be into it for $16,000. I can most likely dribble that money over a 2 year period. Am I nuts or is this worth doing?

[vernz]

The market for our cars is somewhat depressed right now. Many are coming up for sale that are already restored and the sellers are generally not getting the money back that they put into them. Not even close. That equates to free restoration for the buyer. I've been watching for restored 430 engined cars and they do come up periodically. Someone just grabbed a nice Golde top 430 that I think was less than the $$ you are looking at.

Vern

[JohnG]

You didn't mention chrome work or interior. Potentially several thousand more there.

You can do a search on old threads and find some lengthy discussions on this topic but the general consensus was that the more you spent up front to get the best possible starting point, the better the investment. The low starting prices of purchase are often a seduction.

Hence buy the car because you will have a great time and end up with a car you love to own, drive and look at.

I bought a 1958 with 352 in 2003 not greatly different from what you are looking at. I would guess it is maybe worth what I have in it (not including a zillion hours of my own labor) at best. But I had a great time along the way and wouldn't change a thing. Investment? Solar panel manufacturing probably would have been a better place.

It dawned on me one day that: paint is paint, chrome is chrome, machine shop work is machine shop work. They cost the same no matter the car so if it was a profit one eventually wanted then the car had to have a high ultimate value when finished. Squarebird? wrong car. Better to put the money into a 2 seater 'Bird, a Cobra, full Classic Packard or whatever.

But the TBird has been wonderful fun and I never go anywhere without people asking about it, complimenting it or taking photos. Think of it as the card you got in the draw. No Cobra in the Barn, but a Squarebird! Not bad!

John

[Guest]

Hey Guys,
Its not all about the money! Yes you, as I are going to have several thousand dollars invested. But it the love of the labor! Stop and think, if you restore one of these old Birds maybe someone else can enjoy what you and I could enjoy!
THUNDERBIRDS FOREVER!!!
Richard D. Hord

[jopizz]

Another thing to consider is that if you are doing a total restoration you can build it the way you want. There were a lot of great color combinations available in 1960 that you rarely if ever see. I wouldn't be tied to what the data plate says. In the end you'll enjoy it more and it may be worth more than the standard white, black or red if you sell it even if it's not original.

[simplyconnected]

I echo John and Richard's posts. If you want investment, put your money in the bank and let it draw interest.

We don't have classic cars to make money. It COSTS money every time we take them out. Restoration costs can easilly top $20 grand. If you do your own work (or trade work with your restorer buddies), some of that cost can be defrayed.

This is a labor of love. If you aren't absolutely passionate about your restoration, you probably won't finish it (sorry to be rude, but it has happened thousands of times). For encouragement, I keep 'finished' pictures plastered all over my garage. Little by little, things come together. It's slow.

Do you really want a rare 430 in a classic Squarebird? How passionate are you about this car? If not, sell to someone who has been dreaming about this car for years. Now you know why everyone doesn't have a '57 Chevy. At shows, you would think Ford only made retractables and convertibles. These cars get restored because they are worth the investment. But some restorers want the 'first car Dad had' or 'the one I was brought home from the hospital in'. I've seen excellent WWII Jeep restorations; some started out really rough.

I don't own a Thunderbird, but my wife has a '59 Galaxie, and I have a '55 Customline (in the works). I love working on these cars. John is right about; chrome, carpet, and paint, cost the same whether you're doing a Squarebird or any other car. Choose your passion and see it through to the end. Forget the money. I really enjoy seeing a beautifully restored Checker Marathon, a Studebaker Lark, or a classic Ford family car (a Fordor). - Dave

[Anders]

I´t not about if it´s worth it. It´s how can I afford it.
You bring in all the money at once, or make a longer plan.
My bird is not the finest on earth. I works but in order to get it realy fine, I need a lot of money. For show, it would require even more. But I like to drive it, and will spend as much as I can without loosing the rest of my life on it.
Yes, I want her prettyer, but never so shiny so I don´t dare to drive and park her without become a nervous wreck...

[bird 60]

Hi Martin, I have a '60 & I reside in Australia. My T.Bird arrived in Oz in '94 & was purchased for $7,000 in Oz $s.
The person who orriginally bought it is an Engineer & did most of the work himself. He did a complete Rotiserie resto that took him 3 years to complete In '97. Just about everything was reconditioned or replaced with new. Total receipts at the time NOT counting his Labour & running around cost was $34,000 Oz $s. One of the reasons why it worked out so costly was because most of the parts were imported from the States. The same applies with anyone else living outside the U.S. regarding parts. The beauty about you living in the States is that your parts would work out almost half of what we would have to pay. By the sound of things painting is cheaper there as well. To do a top job for the Squarebird here now your'e looking at minimum $15,000. If it's your Dream Car go ahead & do it & the satisfaction will be there, but if it's a mere project be prepared to end up costing you up to $30,000 U.S. if not more for a complete resto. Which ever way you go Marty I wish you the best.

Chris....From the Land of OZ.

[Guest]

We can all chime in ...

but in the end only you can make that determination. Look in the paper or online and you can see that you don't really get much for 16K in any decent used car. Why not have something unique, and you will know everything will be new or rebuilt. Mike

[60 T-Bird]

Thank you for the terrific input. To fill in a few gaps...This was the car I had been looking for. Not necessarily with the 430 but it was an added attraction until I found out how difficult parts are but not impossible. Yes, I was hoping for a $9000 driver, yes, I have the time and yes I don't mind dribbling money into it over a few years time. I’m closing down my hobby of sailing, so now I have a whole in the road I can throw money into. The chrome is in fair shape with no rust or pitting to speak of, so that can wait until the car has made a few laps. I will attempt to pull the 430 beast myself. I take it that it is easier to disconnect the engine from the tranny and yank it that way. If I dismantle the engine, I can save a few bucks that way. I have a full machine shop at the house, so fabbing things will be easy. You will all laugh when I tell you that I am starting a new job at Moller Industries working on the SkyCar...the VTOL vehicle...Thanx again

P.S. >How do I download pictures?

[tbird430]

Personally, I'd keep the Bird. But as others above had said, if you bought the car with the intentions of mearly selling it in the end for a profit, you will be dissatified.

A 430cid Bird deserves to be restored IMO- hardtop, sunroof, or convertible. Ford just didn't make that many 430 Birds.

To post pics you must be a paid member or use a hosting site, such as www.photobucket.com

Good luck,
Jon in TX.

[Coral]

The catalyst behind paid memberships is being able to buy, maintain and save the Squarebird forum webspace.
The thought behind bringing the forum, tech pages and historical information to a central location was a dream of several founding members to have and share an affection of a common joy, the Squarebird.

The difference between just posting a web-link to pictures and uploading them to the Squarebird webspace, is that web-links can get broken easily, and the picture is no longer seen on the site, if the pictures are uploaded to the website, they are a permanent part of Squarebirds and contributing members live on immortalized forever!

Martin, as daunting as the thought might be, restoration of this bird will fill you with such joy and pride that it will be your own Academy Award....

And, just wanted to suggest anyone looking for a bird please contact the members here, I as a fact know of several birds looking for a new nest!