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  #11  
Old 06-06-2013, 11:06 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post

I guess I should have been more specific up front.

I have c4ae- 6090g heads. The have the large intake ports. I also have FPA headers and 2 1/2 pipes through straight glass packs. I plan having the heads rebuilt and a little porting and polishing done. I also plan on putting the carb on an Edelbrock RPM Performer intake. That should give me fairly decent flow.
If I understand correctly I can change the jets out fairly cheaply on the 1407 if it is too much for my set up.

Also, we are at 7,000 feet elevation. From what I've read that means I should adjust toward a more "richer" mix because we have less oxygen here.

I think I'll buy it and give it a try. I can always sell it if it's over kill.

My current autolite is a manual choke so that will be easy enough. I believe it is a vacuum secondary, I'll have to look.

Dave J
Again-

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post

A 750 CFM is a little much for the street (IMO) but if the engine is modified to the point of accepting the flow, nothing wrong with it.
A lot depends on needed (or unneeded) CFM, degree of engine modifications, gearing and intended use.

For example, the 428CJ and SCJ came thru with a 735 HOLLEY. You may experience low end bogging, etc. but the carb and engine can be tuned to get beyond this. If you are not planning on a thumper but just a mild HP increase, the carb will flow too much.

EDELBROCK has an excellent modifications handbook.
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2013, 05:07 PM
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davidmij: "Also, we are at 7,000 feet elevation. From what I've read that means I should adjust toward a more "richer" mix because we have less oxygen here."

As there is less oxygen you should be also having less fuel ("leaner") to keep things in balance?

As it is: an 'OK' fuel/air mixture at sea-level will become too rich when at 7000 feet.

Or have I got it wrong/?
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2013, 05:36 PM
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That is correct, Tom. We are looking for 14.7:1 air-to-fuel ratio. If the air becomes thin, the gas (jets) must be reduced as well or the ratio will be out of whack. Rich mixture wastes gas and produces black smoke. - Dave
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2013, 10:56 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Thx Gents, yes, I got that totally backwards. No oxygen at high altitude would mean I need more oxygen.

I think I'll get it if he'll let it go for $150. I can always sell it and buy something else.

Really appreciate all the input everyone!

Dave J
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  #15  
Old 06-08-2013, 11:25 AM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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So, I looked at crate engines on line. 390 short blocks, long blocks, talked to a couple of companies as well. I ended up on the phone with a very reputable machine shop named Anderson's in Albuquerque. I was talking with the owner Doug Anderson (very quiet, unassuming kind of a guy) who has been around for decades. He blew me away with his knowledge of FE engines. For instance when I told him I had c4ae-6090g heads he said that you can't put hardened valve seats in them, there isn't enough material on the head and you'll ruin the head. He said a lead additive will help if I'm worried about burning it up, but on a seasoned head like mine it shouldn't be a problem. He said he'd recommend just going to CJ valves and a matching cam - that will allow for good flow. He said he has some 428 cranks, use one of those will give me a 410 and increase the torque which is what you want on a heavy vehicle like a 59 T-bird. Depending on the shape of the motor maybe go .030 over and end up a little bigger. He said with that sort of set up I could use the Edelbrock 750, put in a number 12 something or other and be good at our altitude. (Albuq is a mile high). He's built engines for a couple of my friends here in Los Alamos and knows the adjustments for our altitude.

Here's a link I found with 2 builds that will most likely suit me??? http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...ns-+%28Edit%29
I think this is roughly what I want to do.

Off to a swap meet in Alb today.

thx, Dave
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  #16  
Old 06-08-2013, 03:34 PM
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I take a more contemporary approach for the valve seat issue by using aluminum heads with hardened seats and stainless valves (bronze guides and Viton seals, as well) already in them. These are the materials you really want. And did I mention, modern engines have them as standard fare?

Both engines you cite have hardened exhaust seats installed (because they need them). The FE Forum has extensive discussion on this subject (CLICK HERE) and I have pictures of 390 FE heads that clearly show the exhaust valves are dangerously recessed into the heads. I gladly gave the original iron heads to the sheeny man who was looking for scrap metal on garbage day. - Dave
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  #17  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmij View Post

...when I told him I had c4ae-6090g heads he said that you can't put hardened valve seats in them, there isn't enough material on the head and you'll ruin the head.
I would get a second opinion regarding the inserts...

Lead was used primarily as a very cheap way to raise octane, your health and the environment be ****ed. Valve damage was the last gasp of refiners trying to keep it. Probable valve recession is going to happen on a heavily loaded engine (truck). On a passenger car, not likely. That is why FT's employed sodium filled exhaust valves and valve rotators.
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  #18  
Old 06-09-2013, 12:25 PM
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Hm, I'll go through the FE link sometime today Simplyconnected, thanks for pointing me to that. Reading all the stuff I can from guys who have real world experience helps me to understand.

He actually did recommend going with an intake and carb matched aluminum head from edelbrock, but I told him I didn't want to spent that much money on heads.
So do you guys think he is wrong that there isn't enough material for hardened seats on the c4ae's? I told him that I would be driving this car approximately 300 miles a year, and that it was just a fun, ratrod kind of a project. Maybe I gave him the vibe that I didn't care if it lasted.

I'll double check with him on the price of doing the existing heads with CJ valves versus buying aluminum Edelbrock FE's.

He said it's hard to give me a price as there's no telling what they'll run into when they get the motor apart. Could need tons of parts, could be that the existing stuff is OK. The heads were already rebuilt when I put them on a year ago. I've put (maybe) 150 miles on them, but I don't know if they had (viton?) seals, bronze guides or not. He said a rough estimate would be $2700 for a long block build - that was if I supplied the Edelbrock intake. I told him I'd probably go with a short block build because I liked working on it myself and could put the top end together. He said the price wouldn't be much different because bolting the top together isn't all that much work.

Do you guys know if I will have to go to a different oil pan to fit a 428 crank?

Thx Dave J
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  #19  
Old 06-09-2013, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post

I'll double check with him on the price of doing the existing heads with CJ valves versus buying aluminum Edelbrock FE's.

Do you guys know if I will have to go to a different oil pan to fit a 428 crank?

Thx Dave J
The addition of larger valves is not going to get you much without porting and a decent set of headers.

You will use the OEM BIRD pan to clear the engine mounting crossover. If you decide to go with a low sump, you will either have to modify the pan or go with a MILODON custom pan. The aftermarket pan will have oil baffles and also consider using a windage tray.

The builder will need the CC's of the head combustion chambers to order the correct pistons for your desired final CR and you will have to verify valve to piston clearances if you assemble the short.

You need a basic education on engine building before you spend your money-

-HOW TO REBUILD FORD BIG BLOCK FE-
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  #20  
Old 06-09-2013, 09:30 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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I have the "How to build Max Performance Ford FE Engines" but I haven't gone through it since I swapped out the 352 for the 390. I also have FPA headers. I used the oil pan out of the 67 LTD 390. I had to dent it a little to get it to fit above the steering cylinder thing. Then the fin in the shallow end of the pan that touched the crank so I had to pull it out a tad - lot of fun that was!

Thx
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