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  #11  
Old 09-08-2012, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmij View Post
...I took off the old chain, cam sprocket and crank sprocket. The cam pin is at 3 o'clockish and my crank sprocket key is at 6 o'clock. When I line up my timing marks on each sprocket, and then slide them on with the crank key as a guide, my cam pin hole is at about 1:30 - it doesn't line up. Is there something I'm missing, or don't get?..
The crank-to-cam ratio is 2:1. This is in stone and here's a picture of the original setup:

David, I hope you have been taking pictures of your setup as well.

I never depend on damper timing marks and I ALWAYS double check my cam/crank timing by using two different methods that must agree when I'm finished. My second method is not in your books (or Steve Christ's). This one requires you to find true TDC using the tools mentioned in my last post. (All of mine were free.)

Number 1 & 6 pistons go up together, which is confirmed by the firing order. When #1 is in its Power Stroke, #6 is in its Exhaust Stroke.

Take the valve cover off the driver's (LH) side and rotate the cam & crank until #6 rocker arms are dead level with each other. This is the point where the exhaust valve is nearly closed but the intake valve is just starting to open. You can use a straight edge or ruler across the rocker arms if it helps you see this position better. Right at this point, (when the fuel mixture is scavenging in the combustion chamber,) your crank should be at TDC and your sprocket marks should line up. (This is also the position where you engage your distributor gears with the rotor pointing towards #1 spark plug tower.)

Of course, if you advanced your cam four degrees by using the appropriate crank keyway, your timing marks on the crank should be, just before TDC, by that number of degrees. Keep this ratio straight in your head: Advancing the cam is just the same as retarding the crank. We want the valves to open and close slightly sooner, so we advance the cam. A stretched chain will retard the cam (or advance the crank) causing the valves to operate late.

You may call me at 248-544-8834 if you have any concerns. - Dave
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2012, 10:27 AM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Thanks a ton Dave, the cam advance not being the same as the timing advance had me confused. I couldn't figure out how changing the time of the valves opening to the compression cycle altered spark, but now I get it (thx to you).

I had to read a bit more on line to understand the advance of the cam generating more torque too - but it's more clear now.

As for my gear key not lining up - it came to me in my sleep. I was rotating the cam gear clockwise until the next of the 3 slots on the bottom gear lined up with the key. Didn't occur to me to rotate it to the NEXT slot - 2/3 the way around. Now it lines up the dowel on the cam gear. Hope that makes sense.
And yes, I can really tell the difference in the 2 chains. The new one is tight, and it turns a whole lot smoother and more precise than the old non roller chain.

I think I'm good to continue on from here. Thx for all the help once again!

regards, Dave J
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2012, 04:03 PM
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FRUSTRATION- When you fire up your newly chained engine and find out it's off one tooth. This is one of those, "measure twice" situations that needs to be done BEFORE covers (and new gaskets) are replaced.

David, I'm glad you delved into a deeper understanding of your timing. Engine Timing and Cam Grinds, are the very heart and most essential workings of any engine.

Did you pull the distributor yet?

I strongly urge you to degree your crank. If you find that your timing marks are correct, then good. If not, now is the time to correct. I have found engine timing off by fifteen degrees. And notice, your damper timing marks are on the portion that is urethaned into the pulley. That ring can slip. Once I degree my crank, I file a small vee into the sheave (belt) lip. Then I adjust the pointer to it.

When a timing light strobes, it has no reference to the cam. It only senses the electrical spark as you point it at the crank damper.

Let's see some pictures! - Dave
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2012, 12:40 AM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Thx Dave, I was at an all day family thing today and got home about 6:00, thus I didn't get much done today. I spent the last 3 hours cleaning and scrubbing parts so that I can start tomorrow (Sunday) a little ahead. Still need to clean up the engine front etc. tomorrow.

This motor has revealed all kinds of little things since I bought the old LTD. All your advice has been "spot on" and I really appreciate it. There seems to always be a "gotcha" waiting for me. It's a great learning experience. I'm gonna take the time to double and triple check all the timing etc. while reassembling. I've been lucky so far and not had to go back and tear anything down again - that luck could run out though.

By the way, when I pulled off the front cover, the oil pan gasket naturally got a little torn up. Can I use a heavy bead of permatex there when reassembling, like I did in lieu of a gasket on the intake manifold?

I'll try to take some time tomorrow and post some pictures.

Thx, Dave J
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2012, 01:21 AM
gaffney1951 gaffney1951 is offline
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Default Gasket ...

If you buy the right gasket set it should come with a a new partial pan gasket, or you can make one from a sheet of gasket material from any parts store. If the one you have isn't to bad a little sealer after cleaning will work also. My favorite sealer is the gray stuff from ford for the 7.3 diesel. Mike
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2012, 04:24 AM
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Mike is right. Buy a "Timing Cover Gasket Set". Rockauto.com has them at reasonable prices. Your local auto parts store may have them too. If they don't, I'm sure they could order one.

Here's what's in rockauto's FEL-PRO Part # TCS45167 set for a '73 390 FE:

If your engine is different, get the set that matches yours.

BTW, whenever I pull the timing cover off, the first thing I do is stuff rags down the oil pan so no parts or debris drops down there. - Dave
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2012, 12:17 PM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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I bought a complete Felpro gasket set when I put the heads on so I have all the pieces in your picture except the front bottom one that I need. It actually has 2 timing cover gaskets, one like the one in you picture Dave, and a second one that is black and about an eighth of an inch think thick. I'm guessing that one is for a different application? Anyway, I have some gasket material that I can use for the bottom.

I saw the potential for dropping things in the pan right away so I covered it with a rag and some tape. But thx for the heads up.

Here's a couple of pix from this winter - not related to the timing issue. It's not in the picture but I'm using the radiator over flow tank and original radiator. I added the fan shroud from the 67 LTD. I bought the car for $600, pulled the motor and what I needed, and then sold the rest to a guy for the $300 - basically what I could have gotten for the scrap metal. I was glad I found someone who could use the car instead of just scrapping it.

thx gents!
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  #18  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:06 AM
davidmij davidmij is offline
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Finished getting it all back together late yesterday, The new distributor was off by a tooth but I got moved it and it ran pretty good. I messed with the timing light for a few runs - it seems to run best at about 8-10 degrees. I get a back fire once in a while if I rev it. Any ideas on what might cause that? I adjusted the carb by turning in the jet screws until it started to idle rough and then backed them off about 1 turn. I think that could be related to my patch work, short leaky exhaust set up. I have a set of headers on order and should get them in a couple of weeks.

Just a heads up, if you are messing with adjust to top dead center, be sure to take the big beefy pipe wrench off of the crank before trying to start you engine. ;0) Luckily no harm was done.

thx, Dave J

Oh, I haven't installed the Pertronix ignitor yet, I wanted to start by getting it going with the points set up that came with the distributor.
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