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  #11  
Old 06-06-2010, 08:35 PM
wrooper wrooper is offline
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Default Torque value

Thanks again Dave,
I am under the impression that I will be making a mistake to torque at less than 90% of fastener strength. The 9/16 Grade 8 bolt is supposed to take 150 ftlbs according to Fastenal.

My original bolts all torqued to 140 ftlbs except 2 which I determined later were already "necked". One of these I broke and that has led me here......Bill
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2010, 08:41 PM
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Default Super Sport

Yellow Rose,
THAT is my boat[albeit at 17'?? and small block] You can see the fins centered in the white paint and wrapping around the stern...
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2010, 10:03 PM
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Default clamping force

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post
Bill, you may want to invest in any Ford Shop Manual that includes your 430. They are all the same. Just follow the manufacturer's instructions.

Bolts are not hard to find. Any bolt will fail with 40% more twist than the specifications allow. Consider yourself very fortunate that the cast iron threads didn't strip out. - Dave

Edit: Go online and Google "bolt strengths"
I found that a:
1/2"-13 grade 8 bolt, dry torqued to 106 ft/lbs., clamps at 12,770 pounds of force.
9/16"-12 grade 8 bolt, dry torqued to 106 ft/lbs., clamps at 16,375 pounds of force.

More torque does not yield more strength. The REAL objective is to measure stretch. ARP sells a micrometer to use on rod bolts. Torque readings are just a very vague and crude means to get to stretch, because the threads may be upset, dry, different class fit, etc.
That's informative but what if the heads require 20,000 lbs of force. When I google torque specs, tables all specify that 9/16 torque limit is around 150 ftlbs. Some tables vary depending upon dry or oiled or plated etc. The stretch you refer to is the quality that keeps the bolts from backing out from vibration etc. My understanding is you need to torque to 90% of limit to get the stretch B
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2010, 02:26 AM
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simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
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Default

Here's what ARP says:
"Recommended torque is equal to 75% of the fastenerís yield strength."

If the bolt offers 16,300-lbs before it yields, does it make sense to eat up 90% of it's limit in torque? That only leaves 1,630-lbs before it breaks. Remember, pressures add up.


75% is much more reasonable (especially for a premium grade bolt).

Bill, all I can offer is Ford Engine Engineering Dept. spec's. Maybe the reason you are breaking bolts is because you have deviated from that, but I don't know. Fastenal must know something Ford hasn't found out about, yet.

Here are part numbers for different head bolts:
59/60 C0SZ 6065-A 430-cubic in. (20) BOLT - CYLINDER HEAD-9/16"-12 x 4.28"/4.34" <--This is yours.

68/ C8SZ 6065-A 429 & 460-cubic in. (10) BOLT - CYLINDER HEAD-9/16-12 x 5-1/8"
68/ C8SZ 6065-B 429 & 460-cubic in. (10) BOLT - CYLINDER HEAD-9/16-12 x 4-3/4"
69/70 C8SZ 6065-B 429-cubic in. (20) BOLT - CYLINDER HEAD-9/16-12 x 4-3/4"

Maybe you can get one from '68-'70 that's 4-3/4", cut 7/16" off, and dress the point. - Dave
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2010, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrooper View Post

Interestingly.....

I looked closer at the manual page after printing it out and while I know the engine sits backward in my boat[the fly wheel in front] My thermostat is on the flywheel end of the intake [front of my mounted motor,back of conventionally mounted motor]. As though the intake has been reversed on my boat.

Everybody follow that?

The question is....you will note that the intake manifold gasket blocks the water passage from intake to head at the thermostat end of the intake.
There is a MEL MARINE SECTION on the MEL ENGINE FORUM. This can be answered there.

I know how it goes on automotive but marine is a completely different subject.
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2010, 12:47 PM
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Default MEL 430 Head bolts

Bill, this might be the Forum that Gary was speaking of, though I do not see a MEL Marine Engine Forum on it as such.

http://ford-mel-engine.com/

There is an interesting thread regarding the 534 MEL as converted for marine use by Seamaster here.

http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=122

Or maybe this one might help.

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/

but I think it is the first one, as I see that KULTULZ is on that one also.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post

Bill, this might be the Forum that Gary was speaking of, though I do not see a MEL Marine Engine Forum on it as such.

http://ford-mel-engine.com/
I should have been more specific- http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=296

Ask Chris Craft any marine engine questions.

Quote:
There is an interesting thread regarding the 534 MEL as converted for marine use by Seamaster here.

http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=122

Or maybe this one might help.

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/

but I think it is the first one, as I see that KULTULZ is on that one also.
The 534 was not a MEL, it was a member of the SUPER DUTY ENGINE FAMILY (401-477-534) (Med-Hvy Truck) introduced in 1958 also.

I stopped going over there about a year or so ago.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2010, 01:13 PM
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Default MEL 430 Head bolts

Thanks for the full link, Gary. Maybe Bill will find the information he needs there. Yes, I saw that about the 534MEL not really being a MEL engine. I can see this coming... Someone will want to pop a 534 into their Tbird for more power!! We might need to create a new sub-forum.. "The 534 SDE Forum For Squarebirds"! Lol..
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2010, 08:28 PM
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The SD Series are huge brutes. They were the heavy truck gasoline engines before heavy diesel became the norm.
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2012, 06:18 PM
63-4drpost 63-4drpost is offline
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Smile add 10%

There are better bolts than grade 8, some Ford bolts have 6 dashes on them. I figure Ford made the bolt to thier specs, not necasarilly grade 8???? Also, I always add 10% to the torque value specified, just the way I allow for cheap torque wrenches and used bolts. never install a bolt dry!!
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