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  #11  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:24 AM
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You will end up buying two master cylinders if you get a bore size under one inch.

There is nothing 'power' or 'manual' about any master cylinder. They simply operate the opposite of your wheel cylinders. Some M/C's included a residual valve but most didn't.

The idea of one reservoir being larger than the other is because calipers use far more volume than wheel cylinders. So, the large reservoir gets plumbed to the front brakes. If both reservoirs are the same size (usually both large), plumbing to front or rear just doesn't matter.

I support Howard Prout's post, but I believe the M/C bore he is using is 1". Howard has been down this road with both manual drum and power disk brakes. He has a Squarebird with 430 and A/C, which is the worst combination for brake retrofit because of tight real estate at the firewall. Howard is a skilled engineer who fabricated his system and he is using MBM/Scarebird products for a very successful Power Disk Brake setup that he has run for two years. Listen to his advice.

This 'brake system' business is much more technical than it appears. When all your brake cylinders were plumbed together, it didn't matter if one or more are out of adjustment. When you split the system using a dual reservoir, now it matters.

For example, what happens when the front shoes are engaging but the rears aren't quite there yet? Hydraulic fluid will not compress, so you will lock up the front wheels and the rear brakes will be useless.

Enter the Combination Proportioning Valve. They make them for DISK/DISK and DISK/DRUM. I won't go into them here but you need one. It sounds great to just buy a dual res M/C, but you better know what you need to make the brake system work properly and safely. You have seen first hand, what happens to an OEM system when a line bursts. It's no joke when you're going 40 MPH. - Dave
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2012, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
What is the difference between a power brake master and a manual brake master cylinder?

As a general rule, a power brake master cylinder will have a larger bore diameter than a manual brake master. A manual master will also usually have a deep piston hole to accept the manual brake push rod while a power brake master will normally have a shallow hole.
These people offer good tutelage on braking systems-

http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-support/overview.cfm

Also consider early drum applications used differing size wheel cylinders/brake lines for proper brake balance before valving became popular.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:25 AM
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Been there - done that - it wasn't pretty or safe looking IMHO. All the disc / drum master cyls I found only used 2 of the 4 bolts on the original booster. I bet there was a reason for using 4 smaller bolts rather than just 2 of them.

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...?t=5141&page=8

Get Booster Dewey to replace the face on your booster with a 2 bolt style or find a replacement and DIY. Pretty sure the '61-64 Lincoln booster face fits the standard Bendix under the hood booster - it looks identical - just haven't tried it. I think that's what Dewy uses. Grant has taken his booster apart and said it appears you could modify your own with the 2 bigger bolts then cap off the other 2.

X2 on the proportioning valve - I have one and don't have nay problems with nose dive or unbalanced pulling.

Eric

and BTW - I converted my car to discs in 2004............that's 8 years ago - still working fine.

Last edited by DKheld : 04-09-2012 at 09:29 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2012, 10:32 AM
NYsquarebird58 NYsquarebird58 is offline
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I thought it was going to be a simple affair; just swapping out the single MC for a dual MC. It looks like (for now) Iím going to repair the brake system as factory intended.


Right now I have no brakes. I need to get the car road worthy and safe by Jun, 10. I just canít swing the cash right now for the disk brake conversion, so that will have to wait until the winter time. At the moment, I donít trust any of the old brake components, so the brake lines, brake hoses, brake shoes, wheels cylinders, spring kits, and master cylinder are getting replaced.


The good news is that I have some new parts left over from the first T-Bird so that will bring the cost down a bit.


Iím having trouble finding a master cylinder on Rockauto. It lists all their master cylinders for my car as being for manual brake cars. I donít see why there would be a difference in the two .
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:09 AM
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The reason you are seeing the reference to Manual brakes is due to Ford specifications.

For Thunderbird model year 58 and 59 the Master Cylinder bore is listed as Conventional Brakes, 1" dia, Power Brakes 1.125" dia. By 1960, 1" dia was listed on both braking systems.

If you look at your Master Cylinder, the bore diameter is cast into the side of it, probably 1". That's the history as I know it, you will be fine with the MC listed for manual brakes as it's true to spec for your car.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:37 AM
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I have a M/C for manual brakes and it won't fit into the hole in the power booster. It's too large.
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
I have a M/C for manual brakes and it won't fit into the hole in the power booster. It's too large.
The Bird's Nest lists the same MC (manual and power) for all squarebirds (this is too confusing)

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000030b~Z5Z5Z5216~P6 9.95~~~~S3H40MNE5K63247116229e~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z5000003 0c
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  #18  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:47 AM
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Now that I think back to the two times I drove the car on the street and moving it around in the driveway, I do remember the brakes being very touchy.


For example: if was letting the car roll back into a parking space at 3-5mph. I would have to be very careful on the brakes, because if I applied just a bit too much pedal, the brakes would lock right up! Iíve locked the brakes enough to screech the tires a bit just maneuvering the car around at slow speeds in the driveway.


I just figured thatís how old brakes were, and I just had to get used to it, but now Iím wondering if someone at some point put incorrect wheel cylinders on this car.
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  #19  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:57 AM
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Remember that squarebirds don't have self adjusters so if they're not hand adjusted correctly they will grab.
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
Remember that squarebirds don't have self adjusters so if they're not hand adjusted correctly they will grab.
I thought I read somewhere on this forum that you could add self adjusters. If it's an easy retro fit, I'd like to do this.
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