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  #1  
Old 03-02-2012, 11:30 PM
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YellowRose YellowRose is offline
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Default "Tweety Bird" Gets Disc Brakes & More

Today the work on putting in a new dual MC and dual 8" power booster (both chromed from Old Irish Dave-OID for about $20 more over the regular price) started. My mechanic buddy of many years is doing the work for me. The plan was to get the MC and booster in under the hood, do the new brake lines with S.U.R.&R EZ Bend 3/16" tubing that I bought from Dave and do the disk brakes. I am using the Scarebird mounting pieces. Howard suggested that we do the MC and booster first because that was going to be the hardest part to do and would take some time to get it right.

Right off the bat, he ran into a problem of getting the lower panel off the drivers side to get to the KH unit under the dash. It took awhile, but he got it off. Then he ran into a problem of detaching the clevis from the KH unit to the old MC. He could not get that apart because the bolt came up against the brake pedal. That delayed us for quite some time, but he finally was able to detach it after Howard told us how he got his lose. As it turns out, Dave said that had we removed the old MC first, it probably would have gone better and faster. By this time, we were about 2-3 hours behind our schedule.

After we got the old MC out, he put in the new chromed mounting bracket that Howard Prout made for us, along with a rubber seal against the firewall, and a chromed mounting plate over it. It took awhile to get the new "hockey stick" that Howard made for himself (which is working great for him the last year or so) and myself, to attach to the KH clevis, but he got it. Like Howard, I had decided to leave the KH unit in place and hooked up. Leaving it has not caused any problems for Howard.

After that, he made some alignment adjustments on the mounting bracket to make sure we had a smooth movement of the hockey stick between the bracket and through the hole in the firewall and that went well. We did some checking of the brake pedal to make sure we had good action there and we did. Nothing is getting hung up. He tightened down the washers and nuts on the mounting bracket and bolted the power booster booster to it. He mounted the MC to the booster, along with the chromed mounting bracket Howard made for us to hang the Combination valve on.

Then we did some checking on the adjustment of the machine bolt that sticks out of the MC into the power booster. We found it was not long enough and by running it all the way out, it was still not long enough. Then off I went to Home Depot to get a couple of longer machine bolts, something about 1/2" and 3/4" longer than the one that came with the unit. As I recall, we used the one that was 3/4" of an inch longer, adjusted it and got a good setting on it. That machine bolt we used is a Metric hex bolt M6-1.0 x 30MM. So we bolted the two units together and hung the Combo valve on the mounting bracket to see what it was going to look like. It sits lower than the air cleaner and is also level. We did not have to use any washers to level it.

It this point it was long into the afternoon and we had thought that we would have been doing the disc brake conversion by then, and would have been well into completing that. But earlier delays changed those plans. My buddy had received a phone call and had to leave to move some engines to another location. Since we were at a point where it was safe to stop and move the car, we decided to continue this project early in the morning and let him take care of other business.

Very early in the morning we will start again and he will start flaring and bending tubing to install on the MC and Combo valves. We will only be doing the front brakes and lines. The lines to the rear were recently replaced last year. He will do bench bleeding and then we will hook everything up and see how it comes out. Once he is finished in the engine bay, he will start working on the disc brake system. I drove the car back into the garage for the night, without any brakes to speak of, using the emergency brake to stop. So tomorrow, hopefully, things will go much better because, as Howard said, we have the hard part behind us, getting the old MC out, the new equipment in and set up. After the new brake lines are in and that is done, he figures it will only take a couple of hours to do the disc brakes.

I need to do some more wrapping or covering of wiring before we finish. Also, although the AC hoses stuck up quite a bit, when the booster was put in place, it pushed them down and out of the way. The bottom of the chromed mounting bracket just barely clears the steering wheel shaft, but it does. There is also several inches of spacing between the bottom of the power booster and the piece that sticks out of the steering column that connects to the tranny. Here are some pix that I took this morning and afternoon of what we have accomplished so far. Including one of everything sitting on my couch ready to be put to use!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg StuffReadyToInstall.jpg (92.1 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5671.JPG (76.8 KB, 181 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5672.JPG (70.5 KB, 186 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5673.JPG (90.1 KB, 182 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5674.JPG (67.5 KB, 182 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5675.JPG (62.7 KB, 182 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5677.JPG (83.9 KB, 178 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5678.JPG (83.8 KB, 177 views)
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2012, 03:15 AM
lawyercalif lawyercalif is offline
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I want some for my car too. Do you think Howard would be willing to make some more brackets and adjustable hockey sticks. My convertible has air and the Kelsey Hayes booster, so your setup would be just what I need. Could you possibly give us a list of parts and where you got them. Thank you for sharing your conversion with us.
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2012, 09:10 AM
keith keith is offline
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Thanks for the pictures Ray. I got that project to do also.
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2012, 03:34 PM
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Howard Prout Howard Prout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyercalif View Post
Do you think Howard would be willing to make some more brackets and adjustable hockey sticks.
The answer is yes and no. I will gladly share the drawings for the parts and you can have someone make them for you. I had the parts made by a fellow that has a computer controlled laser cutting machine and a computer controlled press. I gave him the drawings in dxf format and fed them into his computer. He did the work for me as a favour - it cost me a fraction of what it would have at his standard rates. He is set up for a volume operation - a hundred sets would be in his league. It is the set-up time that is the killer. I cringe at the thought of what it might cost to get another single set of pieces made. Another issue is the bending of the brackets. Even with his computerized press, there was a fair amount of eyeballing. They turned out very good but it would be better if a jig was set up to control the bending. John Draxler has the drawings and may look into making the necessary brackets, etc. some time in the future.

The problem Ray described as an issue with the clevis to the KH booster was actually related to the brake push rod from the brake pedal arm to the MC. There is a second arm along side the brake pedal arm and it interferes with getting the push rod off the brake pedal arm. However with some wiggling the two arms can be moved enough relative to each other to get the old push rod off and the new one on.

Ray mentioned how close the brackets come to the steering column and he is absolutely right. The steering column is slightly to the left of the centre of the old master cylinder. This wasn't a problem with the original master cylinder set-up but it presents an inteference issue with the brackets for the new booster and MC. In order to get an appropriate leverage ratio on the pivot arm I had to lower the pivot point to a level below the top of the steering column. This was overcome by pinching the lower ends of the brackets closer together so that the lower end of the bracket is positioned alongside the steering column. As such, it is a close fit.

Another problem Ray ran into was getting the lower right nut on the bracket at the firewall beside the AC plenum. I was able to get this nut on and tightened with an air rachet but it was a challenge.
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:04 PM
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Dear Ray; Keep every single reciept, partnumber and whatever more there might be, to the last detail, so I can copy your overhaulin later on. Not this year, as more than my budget will go tp paint & interior, but after that perhaps
Those chromed pieces looks business!
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Prout View Post
The answer is yes and no. I will gladly share the drawings for the parts and you can have someone make them for you. I had the parts made by a fellow that has a computer controlled laser cutting machine and a computer controlled press. I gave him the drawings in dxf format and fed them into his computer. He did the work for me as a favour - it cost me a fraction of what it would have at his standard rates. He is set up for a volume operation - a hundred sets would be in his league. It is the set-up time that is the killer. I cringe at the thought of what it might cost to get another single set of pieces made. Another issue is the bending of the brackets. Even with his computerized press, there was a fair amount of eyeballing. They turned out very good but it would be better if a jig was set up to control the bending. John Draxler has the drawings and may look into making the necessary brackets, etc. some time in the future.

The problem Ray described as an issue with the clevis to the KH booster was actually related to the brake push rod from the brake pedal arm to the MC. There is a second arm along side the brake pedal arm and it interferes with getting the push rold off the brake pedal arm. However with some wiggling the two arms can be moved enough relative to each other to get the old push rod off and the new one on.

Ray mentioned how close the brackets come to the steering column and he is absolutely right. The steering column is slightly to the left of the centre of the old master cylinder. This wasn't a problem with the original master cylinder set-up but it presents an inteference issue with the new booster and MC. In order to get an appropriate leverage ratio on the pivot arm I had to lower the pivot point to a level below the top of the steering column. This was overcome by pinching the lower ends of the brackets closer together so that the lower end of the bracket is positioned alongside the steering column. As such, it is a close fit.

Another problem Ray ran into was getting the lower right nut on the bracket at the firewall beside the AC plenum. I was able to get this nut on and tightened with an air rachet but it was a challenge.
Drawings will be just perfect
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  #7  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Richard D. Hord Richard D. Hord is offline
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Hey Ray,
Looking good!
Richard D. Hord
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  #8  
Old 03-03-2012, 05:24 PM
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Default "Tweety Bird" Gets Disc Brakes & More

I see Howard has posted a reply to the question regarding the mounting bracket and hockey stick. I will post the pix I took this afternoon of the disc brake conversion later on tonight. We are about 3/4's or more done. All we have left to do is to bleed the MC, flare the lines, run them and install them. After that we will be able to test drive the car to see how she brakes. She looks great with disc brakes in place, though you can't see them as you can on more modern cars. I was able to get her back in the garage again and we will finish this next Friday when my buddy is off again. The rims not being open, and my dog dish hubcaps hide them, but they are there.

I have PM'ed the four of you, so check your PM's.
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:58 AM
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Default "Tweety Bird" Gets Disc Brakes & More

I have not had time to get the pictures up that I took yesterday as we did the disc brake conversion. But I will as soon as I can. Dave and I have been working on a special project so that has kept us busy.

As a reminder to our Paid Members, you should check out your own Members Conference Forum below, as there is important information available to you in your own dedicated Forum accessible to our Paid Members only....
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'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

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  #10  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:10 PM
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Default "Tweety Bird" Gets Disc Brakes & More

I have finally caught up a bit and will load some comments and pix of the disc brake conversion that we did yesterday. We are about 3/4ths finished. We have the plumbing left to do, the flairing, cutting, bending, and running of the various new cunifer brake lines. We were not able to finish that yesterday due to time constraints, but we will finish that next Friday. Then it will be time to test drive it and check it all out.

The pictures do not show a lot of the clean up of various pieces that he did. He scraped off old gunk, cleaned the surfaces well before putting new parts on. We used new hardware also. Here are the comments and pix. Thanks to Dave who helped with putting this together! We have a GREAT Webmaster!

Pictures IMGP5680.JPG through IMGP5686.JPG show the removal of the old brake shoes, back plate and spindle cleanup.














Picture IMGP5687.JPG shows fitting the LH Scarebird bracket onto the spindle.


Picture IMGP5688.JPG shows the bracket is bolted to the spindle, the caliper is fitted without pads (so it must be removed again for the rotor), and the hub spacer (donut) is in place. I think he was just checking to make sure the bolt holes would line up correctly with the caliper holes.


Picture IMGP5689.JPG shows the rotor is installed with bearings well greased and dust cap on, and the caliper installed.


Picture IMGP5692.JPG shows the parts removed from the drivers side.


Picture IMGP5695.JPG shows the LH wheel is in place but the brake lines are not installed, yet.


Since the Right Hand side is a duplicate of the Left Hand side, I did not take as many pictures.
Picture IMGP5693.JPG shows the RH side bracket is bolted to the spindle and the hub spacer is installed. The hub spacer slid right into place without any problems at all. Make sure the grooved side is facing in against the other ring, and not looking you in the face! You will not get a good seal if you put it on the wrong way.


Picture IMGP5694.JPG shows the RH hub with rotor is installed.


Picture IMGP5691.JPG shows the RH hub with rotor and calipers installed.
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http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

Last edited by YellowRose : 03-06-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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