This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #31  
Old 03-16-2010, 05:08 PM
GTE427's Avatar
GTE427 GTE427 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Oct 9 2007
Posts: 596
GTE427 is on a distinguished road
Default

Ray,

Off the top of head the early Q-code 427 had a single four barrel carb, written as 427-4v, the R-code had 2 four barrel carbs, aka dual quads, 427-8v. I know by 1968, the de-tuned 427-4v in it's final year was a W-code and HP rating had dropped to 390, gone was the forged crank, gone was the solid lifters replaced by hydraulic camshaft.

As far as a monster, the 427 block is the same physical outside dimensions as any other FE block, believe the 427 had the numbers 352 cast into the front left side on the block. When equipped with low-rise heads, the complete engine is the same size as the 352, 390, 406, 428. When you get into the medium rise and hi rise heads is when the overall engine gets taller and interfers with hoods. otherwise same dimensions and size as the other FE's.

Knowing this, I struggled when reading about the Tasca swap refering to the monster and shoe-horning in. That statement made no sense to me and lead to further dis-belief that the reporting was acurate
__________________
Ken
1959 J Convertible
1960 J Hardtop
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-16-2010, 07:01 PM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is offline
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,876
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Do You Have a 427 Under The Hood?

Hi Ken!

Thanks for the explanation of the 427's. Whether or not we prove or disprove the existence of 427 engines in Flairbirds, or a Bulletbird, this has been an interesting experience for me. I have learned so much more about these old Birds that I did not know and I think others have also.

I have just contacted Marti Auto Works on the off chance that they have any records on the Flairbirds. My memory told me that they did not, but I was not sure. I already knew they did not have any records for the Squarebirds because I contacted them a couple of years ago. The records they have go from 1967's and up. So no luck on tracking down a record of Earle's VIN number and production records through them! Or any other Square, Bullet or Flairbird..
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-16-2010, 07:57 PM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is offline
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,876
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Phil Skinner Of Kelley BlueBook Fame Weighs In!

One of the many, many friendships that have been developed because of my association with Squarebirds is that of Phil Skinner, Collector Car Market Editor of Kelley Blue Book. Phil, like Alan, has been sitting on the side, eating popcorn and taking all this in. Here are his comments regarding the 427 story.

Unless someone has verified factory documentation, I would say the 427 in a Tíbird is a myth.

First, the 427 was not available with either power steering or power brakes, or should I mention, an automatic transmission, all standard equipment on a T-bird.


You said one car has a data plate with the 390 coded on it, I find this hard to believe. 1964, a limited number of Mercury Comets were designated as A/FX drag cars and were delivered with 427s. The Comet had no code for 427 and on the chassis and the data plate, the VIN actually has a blank for the engine entry. Also, you can bet that these cars would have six-digit DSO codes. Also, the lady who saved the 1955-57 T-bird invoices also managed to save the 1962-63 Sports Roadster invoices. If there was a special order 427 equipped car, you can bet she would have saved that one too!


Note: Marti Auto told me they never got anything in the way of records from her below 1967's. As far as I know, those records are lost...

Can a person put a 427 into a bird? Yep, the block has the same dimensions as the 390 FE. But would it be proper with correct headers, I doubt it.

Fordís Total Performance program had a very tight control on the full-size cars that had the 427ís, both dual and single 4-barrel carb editions. I donít see them dropping these engines into a T-bird, the car just wasnít built for that type of activity.

It really boils down to letís see some factory literature such as engineering reports, original order forms, etc. In court, they call it ďbest evidenceĒ.

Regarding the one-off Tasca T-bird, the 427 and 390 are from the same family. Tasca did have a lot of pull in Dearborn and could probably get whatever he wanted. I kind of think the 427 dressed up as a 390 was a little embellished. While they both bolt up the same, and the hi-po Cruise-O-Matic story is plausible, there are other differences like the different intake manifold, what type of exhausts headers were used, and the big thing is out of the car, the 427 had some unique items like the cross-bolt mains, to deal with.

My bet is that it was a custom ordered car, another one where the data plate could reveal many secrets. BTW, I checked out the posts on the website related to this subject. I really pretty much agree with Alan Tastís viewpoints.

Phil Skinner
Collector Car Market Editor
Kelley Blue Book kbb.com

1-800-258-3266 x 4464
pskinner@kbb.com

The above information is provided with Phil's permission.
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-16-2010, 10:00 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowRose View Post

In doing more research, I found something that shows that the 427 engine had two engine codes. There was a Q-427 and a R-427.
Q and R signify intake style, either 4V (410HP) or 8V (425HP).

The 427 released for street was far detuned form an actual race 427.

For instance take a 1964 GALAXIE 427. Street release would have been a low riser while if one bought the lightweight it would have been a High Riser with a bubble hood. Both had the same advertised HP ratings but were far apart from one another.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-17-2010, 06:57 PM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is offline
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,876
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default

Here is some additional information on the Bob Tasca 427 1964 Flairbird. I thought it was a 1965, but Bob, Jr. said his Dad bought a '64. In talking with him this afternoon, he did say that his Dad got it at the plant. He said they put the engine and tranny in there. He said he does not even know what happened to his Dad's 427. He has no information on it and has no idea where it is. He did say that Alexanders Custom Shop In Detroit did do the extensive customization of it. That is about all he knows about it. I guess we will never find out what the data plate said on it when it left the plant. Here is an additional write up about Tasca Ford.

Tasca Ford still operates today at its original location on 777 Taunton Avenue in East Providence, Rhode Island. The premier Ford performance dealer during the muscle car era, Tasca Ford entered the performance market in 1961 when Bob Tasca formed a special high-performance division. Early projects included a 427 Thunderbird in 1965 and a "505" Mustang, which featured 505 bhp and supposedly inspired the Boss 302 Mustang. Tasca's personal driver in 1969 was an 11-second Mustang. But most impressive were Tasca's drag racing cars, first a 1962 406 Galaxie, and then a 406 equipped Fairlane (supposedly the inspiration of the factory 1964 Thunderbolt). In 1966, Tasca Ford debuted its Holman-Moody built "Mystery 9" Mustang, which quickly changed names as its et's dropped. By 1969, Tasca was running a fuel funny car, but that strayed away from the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mantra. By 1963, upwards of 60 high performance cars (40% of total sales) were being sold each month. Tasca also sold the first Shelby AC Cobras in the Northeast. But Tasca will be remembered as creating the inspiration of the Cobra Jet 428. It all started when Tasca reworked the standard 428 Police Interceptor with reworked heads and a 735-cfm four-barrel Holley carb and dropped it into their 1967 Mustang GT coupe. They called it "KR" for "King of the Road" and word soon reached Ford management. They decided to offer the new 428 from the factory but passed on the Tasca name (The "KR" label was actually used on the CJ-powered GT 500 Shelby Mustang) and labeled it the "Cobra Jet" which saved Ford's performance image on the street. But the performance era would soon end, and Tasca actually switched over to Lincoln-Mercury in 1971. But it switched back in 1994 and the home of Ford performance lives on.


Source: http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-dealers.shtml#tasca
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:39 AM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is offline
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,876
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Do You Have A 427 Under The Hood??

Here is a picture that I received from Bob Tasca, Jr. of his Dad's 427 Flairbird. He has no idea where this car is these days. Bob, Sr. said the same thing to Neil Dods, before Bob, Sr. passed away earlier this year.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tasca427FlairbirdSmallPic.jpg (80.2 KB, 58 views)
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:19 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.