This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
Old 07-12-2018, 09:08 AM
Dan Leavens's Avatar
Dan Leavens Dan Leavens is offline
Moderator / Administrator
Join Date: Oct 4 2006
Posts: 4,995
Dan Leavens is on a distinguished road

John / Ray thanks very much for this, as it will be helpful in outsourcing parts for our members moving forward.
Dano Calgary,Alberta Canada
Thunderbird Registry
58HT #33317
60 HT (Sold )
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 12:54 PM
pbf777 pbf777 is offline
Join Date: Jan 9 2016
Posts: 244
pbf777 is on a distinguished road

Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
With all due respect something that has worked in a practical application for multiple years trumps any list you can provide. If I worked on cars solely based on what it says on paper and not by trial and error I wouldn't be much of a mechanic.


If I may point out, I think the discussion has missed the original intention or perhaps the obvious.

I believe the point of soaking the o-rings prior to installation was because thru experience (see above), one had found that the o-ring material WAS incompatible (one point for DAVE) with the soaking proceedure, and that it was this reaction effect that one sought for the end result of better famililarization between the surfaces leading to a superior sealing value.

And I'm sure the engineers, referring to their material compatibility charts, would be aghast at the idea, but in the end, why was one in the field searching for a solution to a problem the engineers didn't acknowledge or solve first!


Last edited by pbf777 : 07-13-2018 at 11:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 01:15 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 5,629
jopizz is on a distinguished road

The service person Dave Hodges talked to did not indicate if Ford had issued a TSB outlining the soaking of the seals or the mechanics had found this out on their own. Obviously leaking control valves was a problem very early on (and it continues to be) and just replacing the seals was not a permanent fix. Having worked on many different Fords including full size and Mustang the control valves and the seals changed many times until the system was finally dropped. Like many things that Ford engineered in the 50's and 60's you have to ask yourself what were they thinking.

John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223 856-779-9695
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 08:45 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,598
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road

Originally Posted by pbf777 View Post
...why was one in the field searching for a solution to a problem the engineers didn't acknowledge or solve first?...
The answer is easy (if you think about it). Back then, 'plastics and polymers' were in their infancy. The right compound wasn't invented until later. I won't pretend to be an expert on chemicals or compounds but this answers the question of why so many of our expensive 'steering rebuilds' are not lasting more than a few weeks!

It also addresses the issue of why Stop Switches fail after two years after using DOT-5 (silicone-based fluid). Silicone requires different seal compounds from DOT-3. Compatibility IS the issue.

The automotive industry wasn't alone with this problem. In the 1970s, we (Ford Manufacturing Development) acquired an 'orbital' press, manufactured in Poland. Brand new, it leaked like a sieve because their seals were crap. Our seals were marginally better.

So, mechanics like John were forced to find their own solutions while everyone else simply lived with the leaks.

The Parker handbook is TODAY's compatibility chart which includes compounds I've never heard of. I spoke with our contact at Parker today and he kept emphasizing, 'it depends on the application'. Later, I realized his point:

Not only is the 'O'-ring compound important but so is the transmission oil used, the environment it lives in AND the product's durability index.

Some people are using synthetic and silicone-based oils with the belief that this 'change' is an improvement. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

Some of the part numbers Ray posted in his Parker statement will NOT be suitable in Detroit as they only go down to -5 degrees F. 'O'-ring # AE152-70 (in the correct sized 'O'-ring) is in the temperature range we need for automatic transmission oil. Turns out, Parker makes 20 other choices in that same ethylene acrylate compound that are all compatible. Each compound is designed for specific applications. - Dave
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2018, 11:31 AM
pbf777 pbf777 is offline
Join Date: Jan 9 2016
Posts: 244
pbf777 is on a distinguished road

That really wasn't intended as a question, my punctuation failure.

But, thank you for the additional insight though.

Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by