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  #1  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:46 PM
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Default Self-adjusting brakes

I see it's time for shoes all around on our '60. But I remember a discussion about using 1961 self adjusters. Always thot I'd wait to do it with the next shoes. So here I am all ready and I can't find the thread. Had part numbers. I checked the Tech Library. Am I missing it there? I also remember a picture of the self adjuster installed. It looked like an illustration from a '61 manual. That would be handy too, since I'd like to be confident I'm stringing it up right. Anyone?
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:53 PM
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This might be the thread you are looking for.

squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20659

John
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http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:48 PM
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Here is some info when I converted my brakes:
They are not listed for 58-60 Thunderbirds since they were not available. If you check under 1961 Thunderbird you will find them. The part numbers are Wagner H2512, H2513 and Raybestos H2544 and H2545. Napa also has them under their own part number. Most auto stores will have them or can get them. You can also get them from Rock Auto. They run between $6 and $10 dollars each. You need two of each side. You also need four of the self adjuster springs; Wagner H412. They come in pairs. They don't come in the kit.

Napa Auto Parts:
Frt and Rr Right side UP80696 $8.69
Frt and Rr Left side UP80695 $8.69
Nyles
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:08 PM
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Self adjusters work well as long as you stay out of water.
The basic 'kit' is for 11" brakes, one kit per wheel, left hand and right hand.
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:03 PM
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John, Niles: Thanks a lot! You guys are quick. Everything I needed. Picture too. Also appreciate the tip about the additional springs not included. I can't get the search feature to work on this phone. So thanks.
I really hate looking for parts in the middle of a job. But it often works out that way. Murphy's law. Last time I did brakes I had to go back because the shoes fit, but didn't have the right spring holes. Sheesh. Which reminds me, give me a comeback if I need 1961 shoes to have the hookup for adjusters. I'm assuming not.
Mike
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygrace View Post
Which reminds me, give me a comeback if I need 1961 shoes to have the hookup for adjusters. I'm assuming not. Mike
No. You need to use the stock squarebird shoes.

John
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:41 PM
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Interesting upgrade, but I adjust my front brakes different from each side because of pulling. After an adjustment, I test drive and re-adjust (back off one side) to get the car to stop straight.

I just follow the manual's adjustment directions on the rears since these don't spin freely like the front.

Dean
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:10 PM
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True, true, Dean. That's just one more reason there's so much on here about the disk brake conversion. Although I've never had much, if any, pulling problem. There's plenty good reasons to do the conversion.
And hey, simply connected: Is that what you meant by 'staying out of water'? Disks aren't bothered by water like drums? I'm assuming here. Mike
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygrace View Post
True, true, Dean. That's just one more reason there's so much on here about the disk brake conversion. Although I've never had much, if any, pulling problem. There's plenty good reasons to do the conversion.
And hey, simply connected: Is that what you meant by 'staying out of water'? Disks aren't bothered by water like drums? I'm assuming here. Mike
I meant it very literally, stay out of water with drum brakes. They hold water if not 'dried out' immediately. Disks are open, cannot pool water and they dry out fast.

Self adjusters are never used on disk brakes because the pads don't have retract springs. Drum brakes do.

I have seen just about every combination of mis-matched sets of shoes possible. I'm not alone, here. Sometimes primary and secondary shoes look similar but they clearly are not. This is partially the reason for pulling brakes but not the only reason.

Our '59 Galaxie pulled terribly, one way when the brakes were cold then the opposite way when warm. It was frustrating and it proved the necessity for a huge steering wheel diameter. Disk brakes solved all those problems.

Self adjusting components are housed in a semi-enclosed and confined space. They are made of simple and cheap sheet metal and cable. If the star wheel and associated components start to rust from driving through flooded streets, they tend to bind and stop working. There are many times I pulled star wheels out just to free them up. Sometimes this was part of a brake shoe change and sometimes it was just because the self adjusters stopped working.

Do all shoes have correct holes for self adjusters? Hey, I'm a restorer/hobbiest/etc. I have drilled holes in shoes that should have been there but weren't (particularly on re-lined shoes). I have made new slots in the back plates because the OEM hole was not inline with the new self adjuster's star wheel.

That's my luck. How many of you bought a PAIR of new McPherson struts in sealed boxes with RH & LH part numbers, brought them home to a car waiting on jack stands and opened the SECOND ONE to find out it was the same-hand as the first. Of course by the second strut install, the store was closed and I was a mess. That's my luck. - Dave
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:00 PM
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Yeah, drums can be a pain. I'd like to do disks, esp since those scarebird pioneers worked out all the part numbers and rim tips. But not in the middle of 'driving season' when we want to be using it. Maybe this off season.
And bad/wrong parts! I remember a water pump that didn't fit. Too long a shaft as I remember. I think some rebuilders mis-identify their incoming returns. Speaking of which: I see my worn shoes are thin in the middle, and almost original at the ends. Like they're too small by a smidge. So when I look in the Concourse catalog, they show 1960 shoes to be 11&1/32. The earlier shoes were 11". Hmmm. Then I recall a thread here where someone thought their drums were already cut to the limit, being 11.90 (or was it 11.09?). Anyway, then he found out no, they are over 11 originally, and he could cut them out more. So right away, I wonder if I was running 11" shoes thanks to a mistaken supplier. I think I'll get shoes from out T-Bird specialists who seem to know the differences. Maybe look into radiusing them...
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