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  #11  
Old 07-05-2017, 09:03 PM
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Michael, I agree with most of what you say IF you qualify your statements.

For example, with regards to GENERATOR circuits... The GEN light is certainly convenient but it isn't necessary. Many trucks and tractors have NO GEN light. Cars only have them as a convenience, not an essential component for the charging system. I personally LOVE having the GEN light for the reasons you raise.

Ok, let's stick with T-birds because they do have a GEN light. In normal operation;
When you first turn the key, the GEN light shines,
When your engine starts, the GEN light goes out,
When you throw a belt, the GEN light shines.

I would expect these conditions to be true in normal operation, all the time, regardless of whether your car has a generator OR an alternator.

Now, we install a self-regulated solid state alternator, commonly found in most production cars. They require a "sense" wire that turns on with the key switch.

Since the original GEN light is fed from the key switch, it serves as a perfect "sense" wire for an alternator. Generators never require a 'sense' wire. Can an alternator system do without the GEN light? No light is necessary, but the alt still requires a 'sense' signal that turns on with the key. Without that signal, the alt won't charge.

But what happens IF the bulb burns out? There goes the signal to the alt. Not only will the bulb stop working but the alt stops as well. This is bad but it only applies to alternators, NOT GEN's.

A simple small resistor will remedy this potential alternator problem. A good bulb will still work exactly the way you would expect (as outlined above). In addition, if the bulb burns out, the resistor still passes enough current for the alt to 'sense' the key is on. Let me say this another way: The resistor never takes the place of your GEN light but it is a safeguard in case the filament burns open. Again, just in alternator systems.

Another small advantage of the resistor is, it passes just enough power to stop nuisance flickering at idle speeds. The diagram below shows the GEN light connected to the 'I' terminal of the VOLTAGE REGULATOR. It turns the voltage regulator on, which in turn turns on the internal solid state components. Otherwise, if on all the time, the battery would drain.

Just a note about ONE-WIRE alternators... They were never used in production cars. Since they don't have a 'sense' wire, they automatically shut themselves off below ~1,000 rpm. This makes 'remote start' impossible to use because remote start stops cranking your engine when the alt starts putting out 'charging voltage'. One-wire alt's need a 'gas pedal goose' upon startup just to begin charging. - Dave
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2017, 06:29 AM
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Generator light bulb(GEN)
I just had to check to see what I had fitted on my spare instrument panel.
G-E 57
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File Type: jpg G-E 57.jpg (53.4 KB, 77 views)
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2017, 10:57 AM
Deanj Deanj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post

Another small advantage of the resistor is, it passes just enough power to stop nuisance flickering at idle speeds. The diagram below shows the GEN light connected to the 'I' terminal of the VOLTAGE REGULATOR. It turns the voltage regulator on, which in turn turns on the internal solid state components. Otherwise, if on all the time, the battery would drain.

- Dave
Thanks Dave. Your term "flicker" isn't how I would describe what happens to my GEN light. It's off after start up, but starts to glow brighter when the alternator can't charge the battery as well as added electronics increase draw. I'd describe it as acting as a volt meter idiot light.

Dean

Last edited by simplyconnected : 07-06-2017 at 05:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2017, 05:03 AM
eddy blackstar eddy blackstar is offline
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thanks for all the advice.what brand is the gen as i will get a full rebuild kit. its the original 352 no ac 1960 coupe
thanks eddy
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  #15  
Old 07-09-2017, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy blackstar View Post
...what brand is the gen as i will get a full rebuild kit...
Ian, I've never heard of a 'kit' for generators. It is easy to forecast when brushes might wear out but not bearings or Bendix gears, etc.

Many generators seemingly go on forever on the same bearings. Others usually give early indications like noises or flickering GEN lights when things go bad.

Look in Rockauto.com and notice the different parts under 'Electrical' for your generator. I do not advocate for buying parts you don't need. That is why it's important to clean and inspect your generator. Some parts, like the armature, are not sold separately. They used to be, but not any more.

If your charging system is healthy, usually a good cleaning and maybe some new brushes are all that is necessary. It's impossible to know however, without seeing the condition of the commutator segments on the armature and the end plate that holds four brushes. - Dave
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:36 AM
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Hi
Probably not much help but I have just looked on what I think is the generator originally fitted to my 58 Squarebird.The end plate has the Fomoco logo impressed on it and the body is marked with G and F and 12V.I seem to recall making an efficient item out of 3 used generators.The shop manual does not specify any particular brand of generator.
Peter

Last edited by newyear : 07-09-2017 at 08:39 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyear View Post
...The end plate has the Fomoco logo impressed on it and the body is marked with G and F and 12V...
Yes, 'G' is the ground terminal, 'F' is the field terminal. There should be one more marked, 'A' for armature:


I've seen starter motors and generators, freshly rebuilt but they refused to work because too much paint was applied to the end plate. This insulated it from ground. It doesn't take much to hold back six or twelve volts.

As with the starter motors, generators came in 6-volt and 12-volt versions. They both look identical from the outside, brushes may be the same as well but field windings are quite different.

It may be that Ford produced their own generators and starter motors but I have to believe that vendors also helped, given the numbers required to keep up with 20 assembly plants and service parts. These parts were used in cars (Ford, Lincoln, Edsel, Mercury), trucks, construction equipment, marine and tractors. The same starter motors and generators were assembled in Flat Head, Y-Block, FE, and MEL engines with only slight variations. For instance, they moved the starter post in MEL engines because it was in the way of the exhaust manifold. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 07-09-2017 at 11:05 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:48 AM
eddy blackstar eddy blackstar is offline
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hi dave
found this http://www.rubberconnection.com.au/p...-NOT-FOR-LUCAS as a kit

Last edited by YellowRose : 07-10-2017 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Fixed broken link
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  #19  
Old 07-10-2017, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy blackstar View Post
Wow! That's the first kit I've ever seen. Good to know that someone carries an armature but again, don't buy one unless you need it.

Brushes (here) are US$6 per PAIR at Rock Auto. Generators used a couple different size bearings depending on if the gen was heavy duty or not.

The way to do this is to take your gen apart, clean it and inspect. Bits of highly conductive carbon will cover the inside along with road oils. I use diesel fuel to clean mine, then gently blow it dry.

If you need anything, measure the old part and order the same. The only critical part is the commutator. You want to catch worn or stuck brushes before they ruin the copper segments.

While you're at it, do your starter motor. Same drill but you can order once and possibly kill two birds with one shipping charge. - Dave
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