This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #31  
Old 08-01-2016, 02:27 AM
JamesBorisPerez JamesBorisPerez is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 5 2014
Posts: 30
JamesBorisPerez is on a distinguished road
Default Mild Overheating

I'm interested to find out if the oil cooler helped the issue. I have a 1960 Thunderbird, and I installed an electric fan that really helped overheating if stop an go traffic (San Francisco), I wouldn't mind addressing the issue, slight now, even better. Thank You.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-01-2016, 03:12 AM
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose YellowRose is offline
Super-Experienced and a HELLOFA nice guy
 
Join Date: Jan 21 2008
Posts: 11,939
YellowRose is on a distinguished road
Default Mild Overheating - 1960 Thunderbird

I will let others address the oil cooler situation. However, I wonder if you happen to have a shroud installed on your radiator, or a 5 or 6 bladed fan? If not, you might consider putting a shroud on, and if you have a 4 bladed fan, consider upgrading it to a 5 or 6 bladed one. Doing that, and having my radiator re-cored, seems to have fixed my overheating problem. You can get an ABS shroud and fans from the various Tbird parts houses listed in the Advertisements Forum. I got mine on eBay, a metal one off a '63 Galaxie, as I recall. So this is something that you might consider if you do not have a shroud or a 5 or 6 bladed fan. That and flushing out the radiator really well.
__________________

Ray Clark - Squarebirds Administrator
'59 Tbird "The Yellow Rose Of Texas" aka "Tweety Bird"
"It's Hip To Be Square"
Thunderbird Registry #33025 VTCI #11178

rayclark07"at"att.net (Home) 210-674-5781 (Cell) 210-875-1411
http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-01-2016, 05:04 PM
byersmtrco's Avatar
byersmtrco byersmtrco is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 28 2004
Posts: 1,611
byersmtrco is on a distinguished road
Default

On mine, the shroud really helped.
I've got a 4-Row radiator. I don't know that the eng
oil gets all that hot. I'm think a trans cooler would really
help. All the newer cars come w/those. Mostly trucks &
vans come with extn'l eng oil coolers too.

I've been out on some pretty hot days. I've never seen that
gauge go past the middle. About 1/3 over is 180 deg (just in the E in TEMP. I had a rad cap with a gauge in it for awhile just so I'd know.
__________________
John Byers
1960 Convertible (Orig owner)
Pic of car with my son Justin (15 Y/O 6'1")
Poss 3rd Gen T/B owner
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-01-2016, 05:14 PM
Tbird1044 Tbird1044 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 31 2012
Posts: 1,054
Tbird1044 is on a distinguished road
Default

Just as a side note, here is a good article on how to properly position the fan in the fan shroud for maximum cooling. It pretty well explains the benefits of doing this. I am still looking for a shorter fan spacer to do this.
https://www.flex-a-lite.com/blog/the...roud-position/
Nyles

Last edited by Tbird1044 : 08-01-2016 at 05:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-01-2016, 08:06 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,163
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

I read the article and I see it as helpful, mainly for this company to sell their products.

I fly radio controlled airplanes as a very casual hobby. On hot days the plane reacts much more sluggish than on cool days. Hot air is expanded and the prop has a harder time 'biting' into it. More rpm doesn't always help because hot air is lighter which causes the propeller to slip.

The article makes no mention of air temperature operation because they are constrained to a mechanical fan mounted behind the radiator where the air is hot. Many of our members increased the number of blades on their fans which helps move hot air, somewhat.

There is a better solution for your cooling system.
ELECTRIC FANS... I mounted my ELECTRIC fan in front of my radiator. Here are the advantages:
  • The blades bite into cooler air far better,
  • The electric motor operates in a cool environment, making it last longer,
  • Multiple electric fan speeds are easy to attain,
  • The fan only turns on when the RADIATOR TEMP gets hot. This is important on several levels.
    • Fuel and engine HP efficiency increases simply because the fan is never needed before your engine comes up to a normal temp. (A 'wide open throttle' switch can be installed to shut down the alternator and A/C clutch, to divert all HP to the rear wheels when you need to get off the tracks.)
  • An electric fan operates well during extended idle terms, like during cruises and rush hour traffic,
  • Electric fans maximize the cooling capacity of 4-row radiators by pushing more cool air through. By contrast, mechanical fans don't work as well at idle speeds because the extra rows of cores actually resists air flow, making air flow much slower,
  • Electric fans ensure enough air will flow through the A/C condenser when the compressor is pumping,
  • It's no secret that all car manufacturers advanced to use the advantages of electric fans. BTW, I've never seen an electric fan that didn't come with a shroud as part of the housing.

OIL COOLING...
Engine oil is always much hotter than coolant. Cylinders and heads have coolant passages around them but what about the aluminum pistons? Pistons don't melt because OIL flow from underneath carries heat to the oil pan where the temp commonly reaches 300 degrees F. (149C). Oil cooling happens when it is pumped around the cast iron and carried away by the cooing system.

Oil cooling is a great idea if your cooling system is insufficient because thermal transfer is most efficient when air temps are coolest and oil temps are at their hottest. (When oil and air temps are the same, there is no cooling.) So, even on the hottest days, oil is typically 150F hotter than ambient air while coolant temps are only ~80F hotter.

Questions?
- Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-01-2016, 09:12 PM
Tbird1044 Tbird1044 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 31 2012
Posts: 1,054
Tbird1044 is on a distinguished road
Default

Dave:]
I totally agree with you the best solution for overheating on these old Birds is an electric fan. The efficiency ratios will never be matched by a belt driven fan. However, if we go to an electric fan, you also need to convert and install a 100 amp alternator. It seems you can never just change ONE thing.
I figure these cars ran for a lot of years with the original cooling systems, so we should be able to get them to run today. I could be wrong. I did find a fan spacer and already bought the shroud, so I'm going to give it a try and see how it performs.
Nyles
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-01-2016, 11:19 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,163
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird1044 View Post
...I figure these cars ran for a lot of years with the original cooling systems, so we should be able to get them to run today...
Absolutely right Nyles, but classic cars were never designed or built for long, idle-speed periods. ALL the classic badges overheat in slow moving traffic unless they are modified.

The bottom line:
It's your car to do with what you want and according to your style. Some classic car owners demand 'pure stock' and those cars only leave the garage on a trailer. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-02-2016, 10:38 PM
ekstrandt ekstrandt is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 8 2016
Posts: 13
ekstrandt is on a distinguished road
Default

Hate to disagree Dave but pulling is better than pushing air through a radiator. A google search will give you many articles to argue this point. The thermal load on the motors is a interesting thought. I would think the motors are designed to handle the 200+ degrees of heat but that is only a assumption. A properly designed and fit shroud with a manual fan definitely will improve cooling. I just completed a modification to my 1960 with a 352 using the specs in the previously cited article. I ran without shroud and it overheated at idle. A shroud without covering half the blades in depth overheated. Shroud covering blades over half car does not overheat. This is real world not theory or drawing board. Electric fans definitely have advantages and are a better cooling solution as you have stated but they are expensive. I have a hard time believing that the cars were not designed to idle for extended periods New York, San Francisco, Chicago and L.A. etc have always had traffic problems. Low octane modern gas? That is a question I have no way to answer. Nyles I anticipate you will have much success with the shroud I made my own and have been happy with the results.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-03-2016, 01:39 AM
scumdog's Avatar
scumdog scumdog is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: May 12 2006
Posts: 1,355
scumdog is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekstrandt View Post
. Electric fans definitely have advantages and are a better cooling solution as you have stated but they are expensive..
My comment is that electric fans are not THAT expensive, about NZ $120 for the big one in my '55 F100 plus maybe another twenty bucks for the relay, switch and wiring, all up around US $100.
Cheap compared to sitting stuck at the roadside gouting coolant everywhere and/or having a Chernobyl sized melt-down in your expensive-to-repair engine.
__________________
A Thunderbirder from the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-03-2016, 09:10 AM
Dakota Boy's Avatar
Dakota Boy Dakota Boy is online now
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 30 2009
Posts: 1,501
Dakota Boy is on a distinguished road
Default

still available! Just wasn't enough for my rebuilt 460. Most likely would be fine with a 352 or 390.
http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19335
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.