This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 06-14-2016, 07:59 PM
GeoffInCarlsbad's Avatar
GeoffInCarlsbad GeoffInCarlsbad is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 4 2015
Posts: 175
GeoffInCarlsbad is on a distinguished road
Default 1961 Bird Pulls to Right when Braking

Test drive today:

When wheels cold, Left Tire spins freely, with just a smidgeon of friction. RH Tire spins a little less freely, with friction for the entire rotations, but tire spins several revoltions.

When HOT: LH Tire spins with similar friction. Wheel is warm to touch. RH Wheel & Lugs are HOT, too hot to handle. Wheel spins less freely.

Per Lower Control Arm post, Steering Wheel turns to the right when braking.

I have new shoes, wheel cylinders, shoes, hoses. Master Cylinder is good. I had the wheel cylinders and hoses done by a shop, plus I had them check and adjust the shoes for me.

From Lower Control Arm thread, I have replaced just about everything on the suspension that can be replaced as far as bushings, ball joints concerned. Though I did discover that the lower ball joints (Thanks Dave) are "generic" and not really the right ball joints, I will replace those shortly.

Based on everyone's advice, I had performed diagnostics to figure out this issue, but I still get that pull.

Could it be the drum? Drum Linings?

Dave, I just got too tired to start pulling the wheels for have a look at the brakes. I will get that done tomorrow or Thursday. I need some rest.
__________________
Geoff In Carlsbad
1961 Thunderbird Convertible
2008 F-250 Super Duty Diesel Long Bed
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-14-2016, 08:18 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is online now
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,748
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

The first thing I would check is that the self adjusters are on the correct side. There is a right and left. They are usually clearly marked. I would also check that the linings are installed correctly. If that is ok I would adjust the right side brakes so they match the drag on the left side. It sounds like the left side is adjusted correctly. If the wheels are getting that hot where you can't touch them then you have major brake issue.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:35 PM
GeoffInCarlsbad's Avatar
GeoffInCarlsbad GeoffInCarlsbad is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 4 2015
Posts: 175
GeoffInCarlsbad is on a distinguished road
Default Roger that...

Hi John:

Yes, I concur. I will re-check everything tomorrow or Thursday.

~g
__________________
Geoff In Carlsbad
1961 Thunderbird Convertible
2008 F-250 Super Duty Diesel Long Bed
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:02 PM
GeoffInCarlsbad's Avatar
GeoffInCarlsbad GeoffInCarlsbad is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Jul 4 2015
Posts: 175
GeoffInCarlsbad is on a distinguished road
Default Brake Update

To expedite, I am going to use postimage.org, but I will start using my own site shortly, with help from Dave on Filezilla.

So, today I did the following tests:

1) When wheels cold, I lifted the front of the car, both wheels off the ground. I spun the Left tire, and it move freely with just a little friction I could hear from the shoes. I spun the Right tire, with much less success and much more friction. 1 revoltion was all I could get.

1a) I backed off the shoes on the right side by turning the star wheel appropriately. I actually took the wheel and drum off to perform this to make sure that the shoes actually moved in.

1b) Returned the drum and tire, and the Right Wheel spun freely with about the same amount of friction as the left.

Drove backwards about 100 yards.

Test 2)

Taking her for a drive.

Wheels cold, slow and fast braking, stopped true (straight), with slight drift to the LEFT.

Drove more, several miles of 25-50mph street driving.

As wheels got warm then hot, more drift , then PULL to the right. I pulled over and felt each rim:

right wheel very hot to the touch, while the left was perfectly comfortable to the touch.

Test 3)

When I got home, I raised the front of the car.

Left Wheel spun the same as cold test result (GOOD)

Right Wheel I could barely spin it! I mean it took effort for me to move the wheel. As the wheel cooled, it became a little easier, but there is definitely a problem there with the shoes or adjuster not working, or the Wheel Cylinder not releasing. But when I use the brakes, when hot, over 20mph, the pull to the right occurs.

I am getting closer and closer to moving to disc brakes, BUT I am really focused on fixing this!

I think, per the manual, these look right, shoes in the right place. So Either I have a bad cylinder (second new one), or maybe the self adjuster is not working (less likely)?

Or I should just pass GO and put on front disc brakes! I expect that to be another challenge as I don't see a lot about that, but I have not looked that hard yet.

PS: I apologize for the stupid ads postimage is now putting on my pics. I am not up to anything nefarious, it's the stupid way they display them. I'll get on a better posting mechanism shortly.

The first two pix are of the Left Front Brake: The third pix is of the Right Front Brake:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Left Front A 800x600.jpg (134.1 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Left Front B 800x600.jpg (123.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Right Front Brake 800x600.jpg (101.0 KB, 32 views)
__________________
Geoff In Carlsbad
1961 Thunderbird Convertible
2008 F-250 Super Duty Diesel Long Bed

Last edited by YellowRose : 06-22-2016 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Fixed brake pix
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:23 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is online now
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,748
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

Your drum brakes although not nearly as good as discs worked fine when they left the factory so with all new parts they should work equally as well. One way to tell if it's a hydraulic issue or mechanical issue is to drive the car until it starts to pull. Jack up the wheel. If the wheel won't spin open the bleeder and let some fluid out. If the wheel starts to spin then it's a hydraulic issue. If it still won't spin then it's a mechanical issue. Make sure where the shoes touch the back plate that the contact points are clean and have a touch of grease. You can also try swapping the drums left and right and see if the problem moves. I doubt it's a drum issue though unless the drum is so worn that the shoes are being overextended and binding.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:59 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is online now
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,748
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

If you determine that it's a hydraulic issue (which I highly suspect) try adjusting the push rod at the master cylinder. The piston may not be returning all the way. Try shortening it and see if that fixes it. Also make sure that the metal brake line is run where it should be and is not too close to the engine.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

Last edited by jopizz : 06-16-2016 at 04:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:01 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.