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  #1  
Old 07-23-2006, 04:01 PM
frank58 frank58 is offline
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Default Engine Identification

I got my '58 bird a few months ago and until my building is done have been gathering some replacment parts and going over everything getting ready for a complete restoration. I have not paid much attention to the engine because I planned on doing a complete rebuild.
However this morning I made a very disheartening discovery. It seem this might not be the correct engine for this car...Oh No!!!!
The big tip off was the Carter AFB carburetor instead of a 4100.
The engine visualy is not a 430, it seems to be a 352... I checked the "engine block assembly date code" and it does not make sense..
The code I have is 1-7AP0 ( I think it's a zero). according to the spec sheets the first number (1) is the engine plant 1=Cleaveland.
the second number (7) is the year (1957?). so far looks good. here is where I lose it.. the third figure should be a number designating month I have the letter A , the fourth figure should be a letter designating date I have P... so what do I have???? the third figure should be a number and it's a letter?????? and whats with the AFB? Ca anyone shed some light on this.... I am just devastated that I have the wrong engine.......... What else can I check (easily)?
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2006, 08:30 PM
1960Bird 1960Bird is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

It should be a 352...430's were not put in TBirds till 1959.


1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers, 2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears
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390, Mild Cam, Headers, 3.70 rear, 2-1/2" Exhaust, Edelbrok Performer RPM Intake, Holley Street Avenger 670 Carburetor, One Wire Alt, Petronix Ignition. She's All Go and No Show.
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2006, 09:28 PM
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Alexander Alexander is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

I seen strange engines in Squarebirds. Several years ago in a car magazine ( it may have been Cars and Parts) they featured a car that they stated was all original. It had a Y block engine in it like the '55-'57 'Birds. Impossible for it to be origianl.

If your car does not have A/C it should be easy to positively identify a FE (the right one for your car). It is stamped "352" of the front of the drivers side between the water pump and the cylinder head.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top
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Old 07-23-2006, 10:18 PM
frank58 frank58 is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

Thanks Alexander, I will check for the "352" stamp tomorrow. (no A/C).
Oh, by the way.
The intake manifold is cast marked 5750034, it should (I think) be marked 5751037.
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2006, 09:20 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Default RE: Engine Identification

>Thanks Alexander, I will check for the "352" stamp tomorrow.
>(no A/C).

>Oh, by the way.
>The intake manifold is cast marked 5750034, it should (I
>think) be marked 5751037.

The above Casting I.D. Nos. is the correct PN sequence for this period FE. A 1959 352 BIRD was shown with 5751087.

Do you see any Stamping I.D. Nos. on the carburetor body itself? The 1958 FORD used the CARTER in addition to the 4100 so it is very well possible that your installation is correct or possibly changed (carb) at some point. HAWKROD has the period MPC and can chase it down for you if the carb has FORD I.D. Nos.

As for the engine, do you see any casting marks along the right rear pan rail? These will identify the block.

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Old 07-25-2006, 11:21 PM
JBird JBird is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

Info

1958 Merc 430
3-2BC
PB8M9424A
$182.66
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2006, 11:18 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Default RE: Engine Identification - UPDATE

>The intake manifold is cast marked 5750034, it should (I
>think) be marked 5751037.

Frank,

I was perusing this site early this morning and came across an excellent tech article...

http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

...describing John G's recounting of his 1958 BIRD 352 overhaul. In it you will see he has the same intake and a brief description of his having a later hydraulic lifter engine;

Excerpt-

"This shot shows the block casting number as the motor is upside down and out in the sun. The top number reads 5750603 indicating it is a 1958 352 motor with hydraulic lifters. The number underneath is the date of manufacture, 1958, May, 13., 2nd shift. This is correct for my chasis, which also has a May 20, 1958 scheduled production date."

The fifth character on the intake manifold Casting I.D. No. is hard (for me) to read. I cannot determine if it is a 3 or an 8. But this should ease your mind as to whether the engine is correct for the car. He also shows 5751034. The 5751087 (or 37) casting I.D. I previously mentioned was from a 1959 352.

Still working on the carburetor.




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Old 07-30-2006, 05:06 PM
frank58 frank58 is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification - UPDATE

You know, I read John's (well written) Bird story a while back, before I had engine concerns.... I didn't think to compare some of the numbers. Well, one thing for sure, we certainly have the same manifolds. The carb seems to be the weak (maybe) point now. I have looked all over trying to find info on what 1958 Ford had a 352 with solid lifters and a carter carb... no luck. I sure do appreciate all your help...
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:12 PM
JBird JBird is offline
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Default RE: Engine Identification

>It should be a 352...430's were not put in TBirds till 1959.
>

A few were made and had major differences. Does your 58 engine look like this? Some of these have been found. Is so, you are one lucky Bird owner!!!

1 of a few.


http://www.rhyner.com/59jbird/photos...hunderbird.jpg

Photo by FORD MOTOR COMPANY

>
>1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers,
>2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears

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  #10  
Old 07-23-2006, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Engine Identification

It is interesting how that surge tank on that prototype 430 is in the same orientation as the 352.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top
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