Wheels cracking x3

[c4clewis]

Kenn, they are tapered for the acorn nuts.

John, I was thinking you were on the right track, but I compared the way the wheel sits with the old Kelsey-Hayes repops I used to have and they are almost identical the way they sit on. I'm thinking that Dave and Tom are on the right track with thinner metal and chroming.

I googled for air-ride related issues and have not seen anything during a quick search on the internet. I have seen many-a-car with air-ride and have never heard of anyone else breaking a wheel like this. I even checked all of my components to ensure everything was still tight, and it is.

I sent an email over to the guys at Coker with all the info I could think of that might be pertinent

Phillip/Steve,
I have become greatly concerned for my wife and I's safety over these wheels cracking. I have created a folder in my Google drive with pictures rather than filling your inbox. I will try to give you as much info as possible here as well. I really like the wheels and get compliments on them, so I would like to get this figured out with you ASAP. I spent 2 weeks deciding on wheels when I originally purchased these several years ago, it drove my wife crazy, but the wheels make the car. It is finally to the point of driving, and I am now unable due to these failures. It is more than a little aggravating.

Pictures

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...m8?usp=sharing

1959 Thunderbird
The cracks ALWAYS are on the front wheels

I have Air-Ride suspension front and back
The air ride lifts the front-end approximately 4 inches from flat-out to ride height
The rear suspension is a 4-link with the stock rear end and drums

The front spindles and brakes are from a 1975-80 Ford Grenada

Alignment specs are set to a stock 1959 Thunderbird when the air-ride is at ride-height

When installing the wheels:
- I place the wheels onto the spindle
- Start each lug nut by hand
- I am using standard Acorn nuts that you see in the pictures; 1/2 x 20 size
- Tighten each lug-nut in a cross-star pattern until seated
- Let the car down on the jack until the wheel has enough weight on it not to move while tightening
- Tighten the lug-nuts to 100ft-lbs (I rechecked the torque on the other front wheel today)
- Let the car all the way down off the jack



- Matt Lewis

[simplyconnected]

Matt, all wheels carry un-sprung weight meaning, it doesn't matter what suspension you have. Tires and wheels happen before the benefit of suspension simply because they ride on the ground. Whether you have air bags, coil springs or torsion bars, all that happens above the spindles.

I cannot fault Granada spindles either. They safely carried millions of Ford and Lincoln cars. I use them on my '55 Customline.

Now, we're back to wheels and the tires they wear. Of course, front wheels turn which exerts side load that rear wheels never see. Again, properly designed and constructed wheels are well able and perfectly suitable for the stresses of turning while braking with pot holes in the mix.

Wheels are a major safety concern and yours would be cause for any of the car manufacturers to announce a recall. I think you and Coker are very fortunate that nobody is seriously injured by these wheels regardless of how good they look. - Dave

EDIT: Looking at your pictures, the last one (20161002_123549.jpg) shows where the flexing happens. It's like bending a piece of steel back and forth, the metal 'work hardens' then it cracks and breaks. Also I noticed, these wheels have long welds on the back side. They may have been heat treated to relieve the weld stress. An improper heat treat will ruin a good steel wheel.

[Yadkin]

Matt, I have Coker's myself- the wire wheels. Granted I've only had them 6 months but no cracking. I'm going to keep a close eye on them. Keep us advised on how Coker responds.

[c4clewis]

Dave, I agree with you 100%. I was just trying to lay out the facts for Coker. That way I hopefully don't have to go through the back and forth of customer service reps going through their flowchart of standard questions.

Thanks for the input though. Like I said, I've never heard of this before, I don't think I'm good enough to come up with a new way to break wheels that no one has thought of before!
It is good to hear that I'm not crazy.

[simplyconnected]

...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7RI2LX6aFLSeWhSTVJvaFhOWE0/view?usp=sharing

Coker took the last one back after I told the rep this was the second one to do it, and they have not heard of any problems...

I posed the question to Coker over the weekend and this is the response I got today. It says they still have no record of failure. You should contact them immediately.

[JohnG]

were you ever able to measure the thickness of the rim anywhere, and compare with OEM ?

[c4clewis]

No I wasn't. There's no good way to get a mic on any flat part. I could come up with a way to measure, but will have to do some math.

[OX1]

To me , it looks like those cracked with almost zero yield first.
Quality steel wheels just don't do that. Been rock climbing a 6000 lb bronco with steel wheels for 18 years.
My buddies and I have done things to wheels you couldn't imagine, but they don't crack (unless physically
distorted to the point you can barely tell it is wheel anymore).

[Joe Johnston]

I've been following this and agree the steel wheels should bend looooong before breaking/cracking. I used to rebuild salvage wrecks and often a steel wheel has to be cut off with a torch because it is folded over the drum/rotor. It didn't break or crack during impact. A likely cause as was mentioned in an earlier post is hydrogen embrittlement caused by chrome plating. Even Ford had problems with chrome plated fans in the 50's and discontinued the practice and I did see it at work occasionally before retiring. A metallurgical lab can test for this, so the cause can be found.

The cracks are not immediately near any welds or their heat affected zones, so I do not believe the heat from welding is the culprit in this case. Probably welded by a robot with considerable gas shielding which also reduces the chances of embrittlement or improperly heat treatedd centers.

[JohnG]

The OEM rims are stamped steel, yes? So, with heat, a ******* lot of bending went on to form them. Now all of a sudden they are brittle?? Doesn't make much sense.

For the heck of it, you might put a good magnet on them and see what you get for a feeling , then repeat with your stock rim. Perhaps the composition is poor.

Does the embrittlement from chrome plating affect the entire depth of material or just the surface?

[Joe Johnston]

The embrittlement issue with plating, forming and heat treating steel is quite an engineering and metallurgical science. Years worth of reading and study is online but the short answer to the cause of the problem will not be resolved until the parts are sent to a lab for analysis. Cooker needs to step up to the plate and address the issue with their supplier.

[pbf777]

Lots of excellent information and probable causes for the failures. But I haven't heard the best advise as to what one should be advised to do next?

RUN!.............just run, as fast and as far from this product as possible. Just trading failed units for replacements (if offered), hoping to spot the failure cracks in the next unit before the dots are connected and the wheel flies off (at speed) seems somewhat hazardous.

It would appear, as observed and stated previously, the product as produced/delivered, based on the failure rate in the environment, is not suitable, at least for the/your application. Whether the failure is of engineering and execution of the stamping and/or metallurgy involved, this is more than what the end user is responsible to establish, specifically (of course, if you don't have anything else to do, well....). Scott.

[byersmtrco]

When my dad still had the car, he had to put a set of wheels on it. A couple had cracked over the years. Always the left front.
Always lost hub caps off the L/F also.
He also had a couple wheels with the lug nut holes hollowed out from years of mullet heads at tire stores using impact guns.

He found a nice set off a 59 TB that didn't have 3 million miles on it like his.

Funny too, I had a set of Mopar rally whls (Magnum 500 style) that would have bolted right on. He wasn't goin' for it. Ha ha !!! He wanted the orig wheels with his little pinner tires.
Not sure how the Magnums would have looked.

[9310alloy]

pbf777 excellent response.

pbf777 is correct "Run Away"
Do not think twice about using those wheels. You are lucky you caught the wheel cracks before a catastrophic failure.

[c4clewis]

I need to check is it was just the first set of 4 that I ordered, or if it is also the new ones that are breaking.