Bellhousing question?

[davidmij]

OK, don't laugh.
Can anyone tell me if an automatic transmission bellhousing can work with a standard transmission?
The bolt pattern on my 59 T-bird, 3 speed auto looks to have the same bolt pattern as a 67 F-100 3sp (no granny gear) bellhousing and tranny that I found for sale.
I always thought automatics were one piece, but upon looking closer at mine I see that the tranny and bellhousing are two separate pieces.
My bellhousing has a number on top - it's PBM7976A.
thx in advance, Dave J

[Dakota Boy]

What motor will be in your car?

I seem to recall talk of a 460 a while ago.

[davidmij]

Hey Greg, I have a 352 right now, but I'm looking for a 390 to replace it.
After I posted this thread I realized that an automatic won't have a hole for the clutch fork - duh.
I got the guy to measure the bellhousing from the 67 ford F-100 and it's smaller than my big block, so he thought it was probably from a small block. I have a cross reference book called "High-Performance Ford Engine parts Interchange" but it doesn't have anything covering trannys and bellhousings. None of the junkyards in NM seem to have any older parts cars left. I may have to look on Craigslist for Colorado and Arizona. If anyone knows of a good web site to cross reference which trannys and bellhousings will work with a 352 and/or 390 that would be great.
thx again, Dave

[simplyconnected]

Don't forget the starter/flywheel (flexplate)/Bell housing combination. Different years used different setups in FE engines.

Some automatics cast the bell housing with the trans. Others are separate pieces. My '59 COM unbolts from the bell housing, and it fits a Y-Block or FE (but not a SBF). - Dave

[redstangbob]

This might help a little. good luck, Bob C

[nocontrol]

bell / tranny

Converted my 58 to 390/4 speed last spring. Have you considered your shifter posistioning? A short tailstock will put you under the dash. You'll also have mount and driveshaft issues.

[davidmij]

Thx guys! Those pictures are great Bob. That's how I measured it - mine was 6 inches between the top two and 6 inches between the next ones down. The 3 bolts for the starter is a early big block thing - I read that in my book.
NoControl, I thought the short tailstock would just change the rear mount. Isn't the gear case in about the same position?
The Red one in these attached pictures is the 3sp that had the wrong bellhousing. It would have been great cuz he only wanted $55 for the entire thing. The other is a 4 speed, ($1,000 rebuilt) but too pricey for me. I need to find a used one like it though.
Because mine will be a Rat Rod, the shifter positioning doesn't really matter, I can just use a long piece of re-bar for a shift handle and brass knuckles or a grenade for the shift knob.
Any chance you have any pictures of your set up Steven?
thx, Dave J

[nocontrol]

The toploader and Lakewood blow proof in your pics are what I used along with a comp plus shifter. Original driveshaft fit and mount was close enough to bolt up. It's hard to get a good measure on where the shifter would wind up and I wanted the extra five + inches that you can get by drilling the rear shift mount boss on these transmissions. Turned out the front mounting was perfect. Have you figured out pedals? I'll try to submit some pics of No Control

[davidmij]

I got an original clutch and brake pedal set up from Dakota Boy. I swapped out the assembly when I did my power brake job - the clutch pedal is just hanging there for now as I still have the cruise-o-matic tranny. What rear end do you have Steven? Some pix would be great - I haven't found anywhere that shows how the clutch linkage hooks up on these T-birds.
thx, Dave

[nocontrol]

You were very lucky to find pedals, I searched the country. Most guys I talked to laughed. Modified mine from 58 Ranchero. Also couldn't find anything about linkage. As much as I looked at the car, I can't see how they made it happen. I gave up and used a hydraulic throw-out bearing and master cylinder kit from Hot Rod Hydraulics. About as easy as it gets and works very well. The pedal feel is natural. You will spend some money on this venture, but the result is very cool.

[davidmij]

Yeah, I kind of figured the pedal set up out of a Fairlane, Galaxie, Ranchero, etc. would be the same thing. I had just signed up here on Squarebirds when I asked about a standard shift - Dakota Boy had a 3 on the tree originally and sold me his clutch assembly. I was VERY lucky to find it.

[davidmij]

Just an update, I ended up getting the 4sp top loader and bellhousing in the picture from post #7. It included the engine plate. $900. The inside looks new.
Now I need to find linkage and a shifter - anyone know where I can find a decent used one? New ones are pricey.
Also, can I use the flywheel that I already have? It's an automatic. I know it's a dumb question, but I've never pulled an automatic. Most I've done is replace a clutch and pressure plate on a 69 dodge.

thx, Dave J

[redstangbob]

No, the flexplate used in an auto setup won't work for you. Do a little research before picking your flywheel, if you plan to spin it very fast I'd leave the old original parts alone and go with a new modern part. You'll also need a pilot bushing. Good luck, Bob C

[davidmij]

Thx Bob, I found out by a "google" search. This car will be maybe 200-500 miles a year so I think I'll go with an original for now. I found a used one with a 90 day warranty for $110 - that includes shipping.
The new ones are pricey!

regards, Dave

[simplyconnected]

David, here are your illustrations for the manual trans, clutch, and steering column shift. If you want a printable size, click on each picture and download them to your computer. Full size Fords and Thunderbirds use different brake pedal supports. Even the master cylinder holes have different centers.