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  • ramos291
    Apprentice
    • Sep 18 2014
    • 70

    new carb installation

    Hello fellow Tbird lovers.
    I am in the process of installing a new Edelbrock 600 CFM carb with electric choke on my 61 390. The fit seems to be good and so far it runs will. My question is for those that have swapped out their carb for a similar carb. Does the Dash pot and mecanisum get removed and not used any more. If so, what is done with the two HOT wires that were connected to it? Also, what have to done with the vacuum line that was also connected to it?
  • jopizz
    Super-Experienced


    • Nov 23 2009
    • 8317

    #2
    What dash pot are you referring to. The original Ford carburetor had a manual dash pot that had no wires or vacuum connected to it. Is it something that was added afterward. Do you have a picture of it.

    John
    John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

    Thunderbird Registry #36223
    jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

    https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

    Comment

    • ramos291
      Apprentice
      • Sep 18 2014
      • 70

      #3
      Pictures

      I called this the dash pot but I do not think that is the correct name for it. Anyway, I dont know if it should be removed and so forth.
      [ATTACH]2.jpg[/ATTACH]
      Originally posted by jopizz
      What dash pot are you referring to. The original Ford carburetor had a manual dash pot that had no wires or vacuum connected to it. Is it something that was added afterward. Do you have a picture of it.

      John
      Attached Files

      Comment

      • jopizz
        Super-Experienced


        • Nov 23 2009
        • 8317

        #4
        That's something that was added on later. It's not factory. Just trace the wires back and remove them and plug wherever the vacuum line was connected to at the motor.

        John
        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

        Thunderbird Registry #36223
        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

        Comment

        • Alan H. Tast, AIA
          Experienced
          • Jan 5 2008
          • 216

          #5
          WRONG, jopizz! What's pictured is very much factory - it's used '61-only on T-birds with air conditioning. It cut power to the A/C compressor clutch when there's a drop in vacuum, such as when accelerating or dropping into passing gear. In '62-later models this switch was moved inside the car. As for adapting the switch to a car with an Edelbrock carb, all I can suggest at this point is to get a copy of the '61 T-bird shop manual and the '61 T-bird Electrical Assembly Manual, study the air conditioning system diagrams/schematics to see how it works, and wire/fabricate/assemble accordingly.
          Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
          Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
          Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

          Comment

          • jopizz
            Super-Experienced


            • Nov 23 2009
            • 8317

            #6
            Alan,

            Thanks for correcting me. I had never seen that before and I don't remember seeing it in the shop manual or the parts manual. I'll have to look again.

            John
            John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

            Thunderbird Registry #36223
            jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

            https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

            Comment

            • ramos291
              Apprentice
              • Sep 18 2014
              • 70

              #7
              Originally posted by Alan H. Tast, AIA
              WRONG, jopizz! What's pictured is very much factory - it's used '61-only on T-birds with air conditioning. It cut power to the A/C compressor clutch when there's a drop in vacuum, such as when accelerating or dropping into passing gear. In '62-later models this switch was moved inside the car. As for adapting the switch to a car with an Edelbrock carb, all I can suggest at this point is to get a copy of the '61 T-bird shop manual and the '61 T-bird Electrical Assembly Manual, study the air conditioning system diagrams/schematics to see how it works, and wire/fabricate/assemble accordingly.
              Thank you Alan for the information and tip.

              Comment

              • ramos291
                Apprentice
                • Sep 18 2014
                • 70

                #8
                Originally posted by jopizz
                Alan,

                Thanks for correcting me. I had never seen that before and I don't remember seeing it in the shop manual or the parts manual. I'll have to look again.

                John
                Thank you jopizz for your input Sir.

                Comment

                • jopizz
                  Super-Experienced


                  • Nov 23 2009
                  • 8317

                  #9
                  I finally found a picture in the electrical manual of the fast idle control. I'm sure it can be made to work on the Edelbrock carburetor but I would try it without it first. Seems it was done away with after 1961. Alan mentioned that it cut power to the clutch on acceleration or change in vacuum. Since it was only used for one year I imagine it didn't work that well.

                  John
                  Attached Files
                  John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                  Thunderbird Registry #36223
                  jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                  https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                  Comment

                  • Alan H. Tast, AIA
                    Experienced
                    • Jan 5 2008
                    • 216

                    #10
                    Originally posted by jopizz
                    I finally found a picture in the electrical manual of the fast idle control. I'm sure it can be made to work on the Edelbrock carburetor but I would try it without it first. Seems it was done away with after 1961. Alan mentioned that it cut power to the clutch on acceleration or change in vacuum. Since it was only used for one year I imagine it didn't work that well.

                    John
                    It wasn't done away with - please re-read my previous post. The switch was revised to get rid of the mechanical kick-down linkage component. It was relocated and designed so that it was placed inside the car. On '62-'63s it was placed on top of the evaporator case and still had a vacuum port as well as the two electrical connections. When vacuum dropped, it allowed the contacts in the switch to open, cutting power to the A/C clutch to allow more power for acceleration.

                    If someone doesn't care whether their engine bogs down with the air on when they hit the go-pedal, then this switch can probably be abandoned, but I am not sure what the "feel" of doing that is like. I do know that when going up steep hills with the AC on, having the AC cut out as the engine labors is noticeable in terms of the AC not pushing cold air into the cabin.
                    Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
                    Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
                    Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

                    Comment

                    • simplyconnected
                      Administrator
                      • May 26 2009
                      • 8779

                      #11
                      Today, we use a WOT (wide open throttle) Switch, mounted right on the throttle. It energizes a small relay which in turn shuts off a few things like:
                      The AC compressor,
                      The alternator (or generator field),
                      Anything else electric that is pulling power.

                      This allows full HP to go to the rear wheels. As soon as your foot lifts off the floor, all electrical functions resume as normal. - Dave
                      Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                      CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                      "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                      --Lee Iacocca

                      From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                      Comment

                      • jopizz
                        Super-Experienced


                        • Nov 23 2009
                        • 8317

                        #12
                        You didn't read my post either. I said I would try it without it first. I didn't say to do away with it. If it bogs down with the air on then reconnect it. If not then don't use it. It looks like the way it's designed he can keep the vacuum connected to it and it will still shut off the compressor when going up a hill without having it connected to the carburetor. I imagine it was connected to the carburetor to boost the idle with the A/C on. Similar to what today's cars do by computer. That's probably why it's referred to as a "fast idle device".

                        John
                        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                        Thunderbird Registry #36223
                        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                        Comment

                        • Alan H. Tast, AIA
                          Experienced
                          • Jan 5 2008
                          • 216

                          #13
                          Touche', John :-)
                          Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
                          Technical Director/Past President, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l.
                          Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"

                          Comment

                          • ramos291
                            Apprentice
                            • Sep 18 2014
                            • 70

                            #14
                            Originally posted by jopizz
                            I finally found a picture in the electrical manual of the fast idle control. I'm sure it can be made to work on the Edelbrock carburetor but I would try it without it first. Seems it was done away with after 1961. Alan mentioned that it cut power to the clutch on acceleration or change in vacuum. Since it was only used for one year I imagine it didn't work that well.

                            John
                            Ah, very good picture John THANK YOU. So far I have basically plugged the vacuum from the fast idle control and covered up the electrical connectors and am just running the Edelbrock carb with out them. My A/C is not currently on the car but some day I plan to get it going.

                            Comment

                            • ramos291
                              Apprentice
                              • Sep 18 2014
                              • 70

                              #15
                              Originally posted by simplyconnected
                              Today, we use a WOT (wide open throttle) Switch, mounted right on the throttle. It energizes a small relay which in turn shuts off a few things like:
                              The AC compressor,
                              The alternator (or generator field),
                              Anything else electric that is pulling power.

                              This allows full HP to go to the rear wheels. As soon as your foot lifts off the floor, all electrical functions resume as normal. - Dave
                              Interesting information Dave. Thank you for sharing. You say "today", is this something you have come up with?

                              Comment

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