Steering box swap?

[A390GT]

Does anyone know if you can swap in a 1968 mustang steering box into a 60 bird? I need a box with a rag joint so I can swap in a aftermarket tilt column. In have one on the shelf and they look really similar.
Thanks,
John

[jopizz]

Not without doing some modifications. Looking at them side by side the mounting holes are different so you will have to modify the frame holes so it lines up. Also there is very little clearance between the stock gear and the exhaust manifold. Since you have both available I would take them apart and see if you can use the Mustang rag joint connector with the Thunderbird housing.

John

[ncbird]

borgeson

I have looked and have not come up with a good swap and my re builder says there is not a direct swap. Borgeson makes some modified box's but I would probably use one of their couplers. They make all kinds to adapt the aftermarket columns etc. I would look at cutting the shaft in the current box and using their coupler to go to the new column. Most of the columns, Ididit Flaming River etc use borgeson couplers. The thing to be aware of is our box's are not sealed (I am told) where the shaft goes into the box and are susceptible to water intrusion at that point.
Grant.

[pcjr]

Steering Box

There is quite a bit more to consider. First of all, any box that you use that eliminates the lower power steering cylinder will be quite a bit bigger than the stock unit. This makes it necessary to modify not only your steering column but also your gear selector linkage and in my case, the firewall. If you are using headers you will also need to modify the drivers side rear exhaust tube on the header. It is far from just a swap.

[simplyconnected]

Just out of curiosity, since you are going through all those changes, why not remove the box and add a rack gear? I did that to our '59 Galaxie, using the OEM column, but you can use any column.

I cut double 'D' slots in the OEM shaft and connected with Borgeson connectors (no rag). The rack gear already had the same connection and the power steering lines were AN connectors that I married to a Mustang pump.

The only 'trick' is to use the original mounting holes in the frame by making two plates (one on each frame rail).

Why use the original holes? Because there are 'curly-Q' brackets spot welded between the frame rail halves (around the bolt holes) so bolts can't crush them together and the steering box mounts to a solid member. That also means you might run into the bracket if you try altering the holes.

BTW, Ford steering boxes are totally sealed and can be submerged in water. 3571 & 3591 are both shaft seals. - Dave

[Tbird1044]

I asked a friend that did a swap in his 60 TBird and it is really a clean install. Here is what he sent me: MY BOX IS AFTERMARKET BUILT BY ABS IN ORANGE CA. 714-771-6549 TALK TO PEDRO. THE BOX BOLTS RIGHT IN . YOU WILL NEED TO BUY A FEW OTHER PARTS.
If you send me a Private message, I can give you contact info for him. I think he is installing a 351 Windsor motor with headers and it looks like everything should clear. Not sure what he is using for his tilt column. this may not be the cheapest way to go, but it sure looks clean.
Nyles

[A390GT]

Thanks for all the help. I'm changing everything over for a safer setup for my father to drive. New master cyl with Disc brakes faster power / tilt steering and a locking shifter. I'm doing his 64 Bonneville and its so far a very easy swap. This one seems like it's going to be a bit of a fight.
Any pics of the box install from abs? It's got the factory 352 in it so I don't know if ill have fitment issues.. The tilt is from flaming river, I still have to find a "stock" looking steering wheel for it. Ill probably send a second post but does anyone have a PDF wiring diagram of the steering column?

[DKheld]

Couldn't find anything searching on "ABS steering boxes" for the Tbird - maybe Pedro knows something we don't. Hopefully someone will have a pic.

Hummmm? Maybe this is what Grant is referring to? Says the column will need mods but maybe not a factor if replacing with a tilt.

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_fairlane_torino/steering-gearbox-power-borgeson-fairlane-galaxie-ranchero-full-size-mercury-1957-1964.html#tabs-container

Column diagram info

http://squarebirds.org/images_steering_wheel/

As mentioned - going to be tight at the back of the manifold. This is my stock 352 and there is only about an inch clearance between the steering box and the manifold. You can see the edge of the box just past the A/C hoses and then the brown manifold - pretty close.
Also - the manifold is specific to the '58-'60 Tbird and if it has been replaced with a later 390 manifold (which will fit) there will be even less clearance (1/2 inch or so).
Keep in mind that the new steering box will be right next to the manifold so it may need a heat shield.



Good luck - let us know what you work out.
Eric

edit - here's the steering page of the ABS catalog.

http://abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset043.html

[pcjr]

Power Steering Box

Thanks for all the help. I'm changing everything over for a safer setup for my father to drive. New master cyl with Disc brakes faster power / tilt steering and a locking shifter. I'm doing his 64 Bonneville and its so far a very easy swap. This one seems like it's going to be a bit of a fight.
Any pics of the box install from abs? It's got the factory 352 in it so I don't know if ill have fitment issues.. The tilt is from flaming river, I still have to find a "stock" looking steering wheel for it. Ill probably send a second post but does anyone have a PDF wiring diagram of the steering column?

I will be up to see my car this Friday. I would be glad to send you some photos of the new box installation. I am not sure how relative it will be to your car as I have changed the power brakes to an electric power brake unit, installed headers, removed the firewall mounted A/C unit and had the firewall modified. That said, it should give you an idea at least of how it fits. Please send me your email address by PM so I can send the photos without the hassle of compressing them to post here.

[A390GT]

Is the thunderbird considered a full sized ford
Mac's looks like it would work its 625 but it doesn't look like a kit
I got a text from abs
PART # 587…..$800.00….ADAPTOR SIZE ¾-30 X 1” DD
Trying to find out if it is a complete kit like their mustang conversion
Ill have some time to make some calls on Friday

[simplyconnected]

Generally, a Thunderbird is NOT a full size Ford however, they share many common parts.

To see the difference, you really need to see a Ford Master Parts Catalog which gives specific part numbers.

Full size Fords are mounted on frames. Squarebirds are unibody construction, spot welded to front and rear sub-frames.

[A390GT]

got everything in for swap but no good...

So, some progress.... backwards....
I ordered the power steering conversion kit from ABS. part# 587 Power gear box pump and shafts. I called Pedro and told him that the car was a 1960 thunderbird with a 352 big block. He said no problem. I also ordered a 33 inch flaming river tilt column, scarebird disc brake conversion and ABS's booster/master cyl.

Got everything in and finally got a day to work on the car. everything came apart real easy. not much power stereing fluid left because it leaked everywhere. It was about 2 hours to clear out all old brake lines/master and booster/ steeringbox, column and power pump.

in with the new......um no....

The gear box was not fitting into its new home. I think the adapter bracket that pedro made was cut too short and the bolt holes won't line up. Also the power pump brackets supplied were not even close to working with the 352.

Pedro's on vacation so I'm at a dead standstill. ugh...

i did get all of the scarebird disc brakes and lines mocked up and lines bent but thats as far as I go until I chat with pedro

John-.

[jopizz]

Before I would order any type of retrofit kit like that I would ask to see pictures of it installed in the same model car that I have. If they can't supply pictures that probably means they never tried it.

John

[simplyconnected]

Just out of curiosity, since you are going through all those changes, why not remove the box and add a rack gear?...

I didn't see your answer to this. Nearly all modern cars use R&P and for good reasons. Why are you removing one steering box and replacing with another ball screw?

At least three posts ask for pictures. Up to now, no pictures. Regardless, apparently you ordered 'unknown' parts from who, Pedro? Um.. ok. Why am I not surprised you are having issues?

GM cars and Ford cars are very different. If you ever have your FE engine rebuilt by a GM guy, expect troubles because FE engines are unique. Someone mentioned a 351W; that's a Mustang engine, a SBF built in Windsor and different yet from the 352 FE that was built in Dearborn.

I don't mean to sound negative but these guys who are asking for pictures know their stuff. You should listen to them.

By comparison, there are not many Squarebirds so aftermarket parts and 'kits' will be sp****. That means you need to do a lot of fabricating.

We found some ABS kits didn't exactly bolt on either but could work with tweaking. Personally, I come from an electrical background but I will not have an electric-assist system on my cars. The Buick Reatta had many horror stories about their German built Teves brake system failures. With a vacuum system, if a failure happens at least you have some brakes. - Dave

[pcjr]

I am not sure what parts are included in the ABS kit you purchased but I only had one issue with the installation on my 60 tbird. The pitman arm needed to be opened up slightly to fully engage the threads. I also installed ABS front and rear disc brakes with their electric powered master cylinder. One issue you will have if you install the rear disc conversion is you will need to add wheel spacers if you are still using the stock 14" wheels. You may want to call and ask for the owner, Lucio. He seems very knowledgeable and helpful. Good luck.