Engine Identification

[JBird]

RE: Engine Identification

>>>It is interesting how that surge tank on that prototype 430
>>>is in the same orientation as the 352.
>>>
>>>Alexander
>>>1959 Hardtop
>>>1960 Golde Top
>>
>>It's my understanding the 430 58 T-Birds didn't vave A/C
>>until they made room for the compressor by turning the surge
>>tank 90 degrees and moving the side mounted fuel pump to the
>>top of the engine where the surge tank used to be. That
>>freed up a space for the compressor.
>
>I am wondering if they origionally used an FE tank? Is the
>thermostat mounting the same J?

You know just when you think you know it turns out you don't ...

http://www.rhyner.com/59jbird/photos/352_tank.jpg

I forgot.

Only Ruffles have ridges.

[JBird]

RE: Engine Identification

I got this photo off the net.

Anyone notice the wingnut on the air cleaner air intake? Not on the cover, the other one.

This air cleaner is from a 430 engine and that wing nut secures the temperature controlled damper tube to the air cleaner. That wing nut and threaded stud are not on any 352 air cleaner I've ever seen.

[Alexander]

RE: Engine Identification

That another difference between the early and later 352 valve covers. The early ones have intergral wire looms. I am not sure when they made the changeover, but it was fairly early in production for the 1958 model year.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[tarps3]

RE: Engine Identification

My original 352 has that wing nut on the snout.
I read on a previous thread somewhere on this board - a long time ago - that this was standard equipment even though the 352 didn't come with the heat tube.

Apparently they just used the same air cleaner on both engines and left the heat tube off the 352.

I have a friend with an original untouched 352 and his has the same wing nut mine does.

[frank58]

RE: Engine Identification

I can not get under the car to check other casting numbers. I'm sure it is a 352.... but what 352 with that carb setup? I will remove the carb to see if I can get any numbers off of it.. all I can see under the crap is "carter AFB" . this is what I'm starting with. (note the smooth black valve covers with built in loom in the center.)



This engine assembly date code puzzles me. 1-7AP0 <-- I think it's a zero.

and here is the culprit....


This thread is getting so interesting, thanks guys... we're on a roll.

[frank58]

RE: Engine Identification

A little more curious info As well as a "7" year code in the engine assy # (see above pic)
There is also a "7" year casting # on the intake manifold.

and a "7" year casting # on the cylinder heads

Help!!!

[JBird]

RE: Engine Identification

That's the same carb that I had on a 58 Merc 383. A carter AFB with a vacuum operated secondarys. That was a 57 engine made for a 58 Mercury. Your valve covers look like the early 352 covers I got by mistake with 5 bolts, no FORD and the wire combs spot welded to the covers.

My guess is it's an early 352.

[Alexander]

RE: Engine Identification

I have not heard of a Carter being placed on a 352 from the factory, but that does look like a period installation. What is your VIN number and build date? It may be original. You do have early valve covers.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

[KULTULZ]

EARLY 352

Frank,

I don't want to get you all excited but it appears from the cylinder head casting no. that you have a very early set of 332/352 heads which came through with machined combustion chambers. The early 332/352 also had solid lifters (if you have adjustable rocker arms, you have them). FORD dropped all of this later during the 1958 production run as they honored the AMA ban on factory race participation and to save money. The advertised HP remained the same even though the engine(s) was detuned. The date code 7AL is unique in that the second character is usually a numeral identifying the day of the month of casting (in this case NOV 1957).

BTW- The engine code prefix EDC is 332 and EDG is 352. If a component has EDC, it meant it was 332 specific but could also be used on the 352 if it was designed as such.

As for the carburetor, you will see the stampings on the airhorn and the right mounting foot;

http://hotrodders.com/gallery/data/500/B8A_9510-Q_58A_352_1.jpg

HAWKROD will have more knowledge of this early FE.

Congratulations ... And hang onto it!

[KULTULZ]

RE: Engine Identification

>
>>I am wondering if they origionally used an FE tank?
>They did because the 430 tank was smooth not indented like
>the one in the photo which is the same as the tank used on
>the 352 cars.
>
>
>>Is the thermostat mounting the same J? Yes.
>
>It was in the same place as the later 430 intakes. Right
>underneath the surge tank flange plate.

Sorry, I was wondering if the mounting pattern (thermostat opening) was the same between the FE and MEL.

What is the name of that reference book you have on these BIRDS? You surely have done your homework on yours...

[frank58]

RE: Engine Identification

Yes, it has the early valve covers smooth, black (rust), wire loom in center. (picture above). I am going to go outside right now and take off one of the valve covers and check the rocker arms..
Here is VIN tag.

[1960Bird]

RE: Engine Identification

Your 1958 Bird originally came with a 352 four barrel, it came from the Wixom Assembly Plant, it was the 5022 Bird made out of 35758 in 1958.

As to the 430's installed in 1958 production cars, I would enjoy seeing the documation. (Source, Vintage Thunderbird web site for 1958 Thunderbird identification. Quote "While sales literature advertised the '430' option, they were not available until introduction of the '59 models." If there are 1958 '430 Thunderbirds around I would imagine that they were prototypes.






1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers, 2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears and Mild Cam

[frank58]

RE: Engine Identification

OK guys.... update. I have more info on the carb (and engine.
first the carb # L7 2640SA (which I can not find listed anywhere)



this is the underside.




The Ford number. 5750068



and now my SOLID lifters.



stranger and stranger... I hope this info helps spread some light on this.

[JBird]

RE: Engine Identification

>Yes, it has the early valve covers smooth, black (rust),
>wire loom in center. (picture above). I am going to go
>outside right now and take off one of the valve covers and
>check the rocker arms..
> Here is VIN tag.
>

The 12C makes it March 12, 1958 so it's a mid year car.

[JBird]

RE: Engine Identification

>>Yes, it has the early valve covers smooth, black (rust),
>>wire loom in center. (picture above). I am going to go
>>outside right now and take off one of the valve covers and
>>check the rocker arms..
>> Here is VIN tag.
>>
>
>The 12C makes it March 12, 1958 so it's a mid year car.

H=352
8=1958
Y=Wixom, MI, Assembly Plant
H=Body Code for Tudor hardtop
105022 - 100001 = 5021 Plant Consecutive Unit Number so it's one of the early 58's

63A=2 Dr HT Body Style
A=Color Black aka Raven Black
XH=Black Vinyl Seat Covers with White Vinyl Inserts
12C=March 12, 1958 Production Date
4= Criuse-O-Matic 3-speed Trans
1=310:1 Rear Axle ratio