Engine starts, misses and stops... ?

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

One last thing. Today I noticed that under my carburator there is some kind of spacer. The spacer seems to fall apart and one corner of the carb is unerlayed with couple of washers (???). Do I need any of that with the new Edelbrock carb (I guess not) ?

[jopizz]

You will need the spacer plate with your new carburetor. The reason for the tapered spacer is that the motor is at an angle and the spacer allows the carburetor to be level. New spacers are available if yours is too far gone.

John

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

You will need the spacer plate with your new carburetor. The reason for the tapered spacer is that the motor is at an angle and the spacer allows the carburetor to be level. New spacers are available if yours is too far gone.

John

Thank you John, I will order it. I found it on the MAC's for bloody $70. I guess I should also replace the carb gasket. Will I need two of those to put one at the top and one at the bottom of the spacer?

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_thunderbird/ford-thunderbird-carburetor-spacer-plate-gasket-upper-or-lower-352-and-390-v8-w-4-barrel-carb-1957-66.html

[jopizz]

Yes, you will need a gasket above and below the spacer.

John

[simplyconnected]

Measure your studs. Are they long enough to support a tapered spacer? You are ordering a TAPERED spacer, right?

[Sherman]

John good advice. As the saying goes 10 Holley carbs= 1 good operating carb. I agree Edelbrock minimum 640 cfm.

On this note about 2 weeks ago my Holley 650 developed a leak from the secondary bowl. It appeared that the bowl had rotted from the inside out. The casting had hairline cracks in it and fuel was leaking from a few of them.
The following Monday I called Holley, gave them the casting number, and they knew exactly what happened. They informed me that "a batch" of carburetors were cast using too much lead. They instructed me to send it back and they would send me a new one.
They did send it as promised and the new one is on the car. I am satisfied that they stood by their product, however, I can't help but think about how long this one is going to last.

Since this episode I've googled the topic, but it is only mentioned is few sites and from what I can tell Holley has not issued a recall. I want to let uses of this site be aware of the issue. The casting number on my defective carb began with 4777.

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Measure your studs. Are they long enough to support a tapered spacer? You are ordering a TAPERED spacer, right?

Yes, a tapered spacer is the one I have there at the moment, only in poor condition. So the studs should fit the new spacer just fine I guess.

This is the one I ordered:

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_thunderbird/ford-thunderbird-carburetor-spacer-352-v8-1958-60.html

[scumdog]

John good advice. As the saying goes 10 Holley carbs= 1 good operating carb. I agree Edelbrock minimum 640 cfm.

The 780 Holley I have on the 429 in my '55 F100 was bought new by me in 1978, apart from a float with a pinhole about 10 years ago I have had no issues with it. (And I fixed the float easily, didn't cost me anything).
I have had other cars with Holleys and any issues with them was 'operator error'😀

[Tbird1044]

Larry's has the tapered spacer listed for $49.95. Just thought I would let you know.
Nyles

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

Larry's has the tapered spacer listed for $49.95. Just thought I would let you know.
Nyles

Thank you Nyles. I know that MAC's are usually more expensive than others so I checked only Pat Wilson's where they have it for $60. Ordered it already but it's good to know that one should check all possibilities in the future.

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

So, the new Edelbrock 1406 carburetor is installed and running. Unfortunately, it did not solve the missing problem. As I looked into the carb while holding the engine in higher rpm, it's obvious that the fuel pressure is not constant and is dropping for short periods causing the carb/engine to starve for fuel.

The good knews is that replacing the carb obviously solved a vacuum leak issue that was present which solved my problem with non functional brake booster and the brakes now behave like on a new car! Not speaking about better fuel economy and overal reliablity over the original carb I guess. So I'm happy, I made this exchange.

Now I need to solve the rest of the puzzle meaning replacing the fuel lines and fuel pump(s). And here is where I need your oppinion. Presently I have the original mechanic pump on the car backed up with an electric one. Not sure which one is failing but I guess with the price of those parts I'm not going to investigate and simply replace both of them. Just need to know what config should I go with that would guarantie me easy starts (even after longer periods), constant needed fuel pressure for my new carb and overall stabilty. Here are the configs that I could go with and would like to chose the best one for my needs:

a) mech. pump only
b) mech. pupm + el. pump
c) el. pump only
d) el. pump with + fuep pressure regulator

Thank you for your advice.

[Joe Johnston]

need to know what config should I go with that would guarantee me easy starts (even after longer periods), constant needed fuel pressure for my new carb and overall stability. Here are the configs that I could go with and would like to chose the best one for my needs:

B would be my choice.

After sitting for long periods the electric can fill the carb for easy starting. Turn it off and drive with the mechanical pump. I have this set up on my 57 for several years with no problems and easy starting.

Make sure you use an electric fuel pump for carbureted engines with a low pressure of about 5 pounds pressure or you will need a regulator to reduce the pressure to that range. They work best if placed near the tank because they push fuel better than pull.

[Rock&Roll Firebird]

B would be my choice.

After sitting for long periods the electric can fill the carb for easy starting. Turn it off and drive with the mechanical pump. I have this set up on my 57 for several years with no problems and easy starting.

Make sure you use an electric fuel pump for carbureted engines with a low pressure of about 5 pounds pressure or you will need a regulator to reduce the pressure to that range. They work best if placed near the tank because they push fuel better than pull.

Thank you Joe. Any reason turning the el. pump off after startup?

[Joe Johnston]

Any reason turning the el. pump off after startup

1 - It isn't needed and if the engine runs fine you then know the mechanical pump is functioning properly

2 - Should there ever be a rupture in the mechanical pump's diaphragm, you might pump less gas into the crankcase. (It can happen but the chances are very slim)

3 - A safety concern is that if you are involved in an accident and can not turn off the ignition, the pump will continue to run and pump gas which could ignite if the car was overturned. This can be eliminated by a "rollover switch" which new fuel injected cars use, or by wiring through relays and or oil pressure senders which would kill the pump when there was no oil pressure. I think someone here posted a wiring diagram that was probably the safest method to wire an electric pump. Hopefully the link will be posted for you.

My cars set weeks at a time and start quickly once the carbs are full of fuel. In my case the electric pump only eliminates the long cranking time, and remain off after the initial startup, it does not improve performance in any way.

[jopizz]

Jiri,

I was not aware you had an electric fuel pump also. How do you have them connected. You need to keep the fuel pressure to 6 lbs or below. I would definitely install a pressure regulator as most electric pumps will go over that. I would also take Joe's advice and have it switched where you can turn it off. I can't remember the last time I had a mechanical pump fail so I would only use the electric pump in an emergency. I never had a problem with starting when I changed over to the Edelbrock carb.

John