removing front suspension

[Guest]

Hi all, is they're a guide somewhere as to the do's and don't's of removing the front suspension. Using spring compressors, removing power steering etc. Is it pretty straightforward.
Thanks Chris.

[toddgilroy]

Chris - I did this back in the winter and started with the shop manual. It provides very detailed instructions, but I also read through several threads here on the forum for tips & tricks from other members who have done this.

Just search on suspension...Dave Dare (~simplyconnected) recaps the process in several of the threads, including this one: http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...ght=suspension

[Dakota Boy]

X2 on the shop manual method.

One thing I don't think it mentions; remove the rubber bumper from the upper control arm first. It makes it easier to get the lower ball joint back into the spindle when you are near the end of the job.

The shop manual mentions some "special" (probably unavailable) tools for pressing out the ball joints from the spindle. A brass hammer and a little MAP gas will also work.

[simplyconnected]

Squarebird ball joints are not pressed in, they each have three rivets that must be drilled out then chiseled off. New ball joints should come with three cap screws with washers and nuts.

Spring compressors are not necessary and they won't fit between the spring and frame.

I like the idea of reconnecting the ball joint studs without the upper bumper. All my cars had engines so the lower joint studs went in without any problem. - Dave

[bygrace]

Upsidedown ball joints?

This thread seems to have some people knowledgeable in ball joints. I'm afraid I' m not going to be doing my own work, but I've begun to wonder about the shop that will. Here's the scoop:
Our '60 Bird just tore out a hole in the control arm around the lower right ball joint. The ball joints were put in by a local shop about 5 years ago. Looking at the damage and the undamaged one, I see that they are bolted to the TOP of the control arm. This leaves the car's weight hanging on two bolts! Looking closely at my Ford shop manual reprint, it looks like the ball joint pictured has no bolt flange visible on top. If it is on the bottom, it would put the car's weight on the ball joint bolt flange, which seems to make more sense. Bottom line, did the shop screw up? Does the bottom ball joint go in from below (bolt flange under) or from above (flange on top?

[simplyconnected]

Mike, just about every lower ball joint I changed would only go in one way including Mustang ball joints that press in from the bottom because there are no bolts.

Page 8-8 in your Shop Manual shows the lower joint as it mounts from the bottom. Look at Fig.8 and Fig.9.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say, top joints normally mount from the top down and lower joints normally mount from the bottom up. There are exceptions where some early lower joints are sandwiched in the middle of the arm but again, there is only one way they fit.

Lower ball joints (and shock absorbers) mount through and bolted from the bottom so that the bolts do not bear suspension pressure. They are there to hold the ball joint assembly square to the lower arm.

Tell your mechanic that the tire pulls UP on the joint stud as the spring pulls down on the joint housing. It only makes sense to enter the lower joint from the bottom. I see pictures of other Ford cars that typically show the lower joint mounted from the bottom. - Dave

[jopizz]

As Dave mentioned ball joints should go in from the bottom of the lower control arm and the top of the upper control arm.

John

[toddgilroy]

Sorry the photo is a little blurry...my upper ball joints were still the original joints (riveted in place), and you can see they go in from the top.

[bygrace]

Upsidedown ball joints?

John and Dave:
Thank you! Frankly, I just wasn't ready to challenge the garage that put these in ON TOP 5 years ago without some better verification. The shop manual reprint is fuzzy, but it does say enough to make me think they were (are) wrong. I just visited some of members rebuild picture sites, and found better pictures that clearly show bolt flanges on the bottom. With them on top, The bolts just pulled through. It coulda killed us! Trouble is, I had it towed to the same shop so now I have take it elsewhere or try to "Correct" the mechanic. Wish me luck.

[jopizz]

Probably a good move not giving them a second chance to screw something up.

John

[DKheld]

I agree on the bottom ball joints needing to be installed from the bottom. You can see in this pic that if the tire hit an object or bump etc the force would pull up on the ball joint via the spindle. There would also be resistance of the lower A arm from moving up from the spring and shock. If bolted on top as you mentioned all that force would be on the bolts only (guess you found out the hard way but glad no one was hurt).


JMHO but the top ball joint can be installed either way. It's just a pivot point and shouldn't encounter resistance like the lower A arm...... I installed mine from the bottom. That was over 10 years ago and no problems so far. Of course these are Granada spindles for my disc brake conversion - shouldn't make any difference though. Might cause some grief at the alignment shop on a standard set up. It was a pain in the butt with the Granada spindles getting it to feel like original but finally got there if not better.




Eric

[bygrace]

upsidedown ball joints

Thanks Eric. Your thinking coincides with mine when thinking about the forces involved in driving. Especially when the suspension bottoms out. Then those bolts get a real yank. The final break came when parking. So stresses are apparently also high when grinding tires at little speed. I'll be using everyone's opinion with my garage. Thanks all. Mike

[simplyconnected]

...JMHO but the top ball joint can be installed either way. It's just a pivot point and shouldn't encounter resistance like the lower A arm...... I installed mine from the bottom. That was over 10 years ago and no problems so far. Of course these are Granada spindles for my disc brake conversion - shouldn't make any difference though...

That's it!!! Eric, I'm using Granada spindles on my '55 with no problems in the alignment dept. YOU just solved your problem. All this time, I never thought to ask about how your joints were mounted AND I couldn't understand why you were having so much trouble with alignment.

When you mounted your top joint from the bottom, you hiked the top 'A' arm up. That pulled the top of your spindle inboard. So, this is not 'just' a pivot point but an integral part of your geometry. I hope you correct the mounting on your top joint.

Mike, I agree with John but I would go a bit further. Ask your shop to see the mechanic's license with certification in 'Suspension'. He should have known better if he went through proper training and testing.

One good jolt could have ripped the lower joint out and you or your family members could be seriously injured or dead. - Dave

[dgs]

I rebuilt my front suspension back in 2007 and did a fairly good documentation here on my web site. I need to redo my site and post some larger images, but this is what I've got for now.

In this shot it looks like the ball joint mounts from the top:



But it must be something in the way the old one was made, because they clearly mount from the bottom:




I'd say the old shop owes you to repair the damage and have it done right.

[DKheld]

Doug - I had a set like that - probably inserted from the bottom but have a dust boot retainer on top.
(can't find a pic at the moment but similar to this)


Dave - after the alignment shop finally figured out the settings I wanted so my car would "feel" comfortable and easy to drive I won't change it. The shop set it for the standard settings but I didn't like how it drove - too "twitchy" at speeds above 60 and the speed on the interstates where I drive often are 70. Found myself "sawing on the steering wheel" too much so took it back for adjustments - they probably hated to see me coming with my "modified suspension".
It drives great - I've even had a few folks that have driven it ask me what kind of rack and pinion steering it has on it. With about 12K miles the tires are wearing SLIGHTLY more on the inside (about 1/32 more) than the outside so you're right - looks like it's got some negative camber. They are not cupped and don't roar so it's not toe. But like I sad - it drives so good I'll leave it as is. Who knows if it's right or not - only a handful out there with the Granada conversion.

Eric