Yellow Rose - A Garage Queen??

[simplyconnected]

Don't be downhearted, Ray. YellowRose is new to this game and a lot of folks went home 'with one arm as long as the other'.

You know your car is stunningly beautiful. As the judges see more of her, I'm confident they will come around.

Not bad at all, though... two shows and two awards. The important goal is to have fun, meet different folks, and show your cars. Above all, have fun. If you sense Rose doesn't stand a chance with these judges, don't bring her back there again... take her to a different show where she can be better appreciated.

[bird 60]

Car Show

Congratulations Ray, just a curious question. Was it an open class or was there different ones,eg, Original,Mild custom, Radical etc. A lot of times one can bomb out not beeing in the proper class. Congratulations once again & waiting for pix.

Chris....From the Land of OZ.

[YellowRose]

Yellow Rose - A Garage Queen??

Hi Chris and Dave, Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated. The cars were broken down by classes. Antiques, Original, Ford, Chevy, Rat Rod, Custom, Truck, etc.. Within those classes were sub classes, like pre 1978, or whatever. There were about 20 classes. The judges made the determination as to which class or sub class your car was put in. Mine was put in the Custom class. I have no idea how many other Custom cars I was competing against. Oh well. There is another car show the last of the month out of town that I might go to.

[scumdog]

Ray, I guess your car was put in 'Custom' class due to its non-standard paint etc.
The trouble is (I suspect), Yellow Rose is not 'custom' enough to compete against real customs (those with body mods, no doorhandles, motor swaps etc)

[YellowRose]

Yellow Rose - A Garage Queen??

Yup, I would imagine that she was put in the Custom class because of the non-standard paint job and the interior also. Oh well, I will keep trying. I think I am going to ask a few more questions of the sponsors of future car shows. Such as, whether or not I have the choice of classes, or if the judges make the choice. Whether they will supply you with the judges scoring for your car. Things like that. I can't see going to a show where they will not tell you what they found wrong with your car so you can correct any deficiencies they find. At least on the first show, the judge would have told me where the paint blemishes were that she said she saw. But it took her a month to get back to me and by then she said she had judged so many cars since that she no longer remembered.

[bird 60]

Personally I would put Rose in Mild Custom, that's if there was a class. But like you mentioned they do the classes. I was in the same boat a few years ago where I asked for the results on a curious note as to how I ended up, but was told the same thing that they don't tell you. I could see their reasoning I guess, as it would open up a can of worms between the owners of the cars especially the sore losers that really don't deserve any trophys. A lot of the judges aren't qualified either in relation what to look for. If they are Chevvy people in an open class you won't stand a chance, they look after their own & visa versa, that's talking from experience. Color plays a big role as well, if they don't like it they deduct points or don't give very high points. Our cars here are mainly judged on Paint, Interior, Trunk, Engine Bay, Chrome & Wheels. Points are given for every section & added together. The highest point scorer 1st & so on. I've got a show with my Bird this weekend so we'll see how we go.

Chris....From the Land of OZ.

[YellowRose]

Yellow Rose - A Garage Queen??

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately, there was not a Mild Custom and as I said, I did not have the choice as to which class I wanted to be in anyway. I have a lot to learn about judges and judging, apparently. This was an event sponsored by a Pontiac club, but it was an Open show. I think the breakdown on judging was the same as the areas you mentioned with a certain amount of points to be gained for each section. You had to have your hood, trunk and at least one door open. I will just see what happens the next time I take her out. Good luck on your next show! As soon as I can get some time, I will put a web page together and post it, hopefully, in the next day or so.

[Alan H. Tast, AIA]

You just hit a "hot button" with me. Any time you go to a local show with "judging" it'll be a crap shoot as to how they're handling things. More often than not "judging" is one or two people with only a few minutes of time to spend on each car and limited knowledge of what they're looking at. Often, people have been tasked with selecting a car for an award or several awards just because they happened to be at the right place at the right time. Sure, they may have a "judging" sheet but it probably will be very rudimentary, maybe asking to rate a specific item on a scale from 1-10, in order give them something to add up once they get back to the tally table. Factor in the "good buddy" system when judges let personal biases and relationships determine who gets what, and you'll soon begin to sniff out events where quality and objectivity really are important versus playing favorites with friends of the sponsors, judges or show promoters. And, if you look close at how classes are broken out, you may see some of the biases the hosting organization has.

You also have to pick your battles. With all the modifications you've done, if you take the car to a show put on by the local AACA chapter where the members pride themselves on maintaining authenticity, you'll get a different opinion than if you went to one put on by street rodders or custom car enthusiasts. Even a Goodguys event will be different than the Kustom Kemps of America's "Lead Sled Nationals" so don't expect things to be the same from event to event.

Case in point: I attended a show put on by a local Mustang club with my '63 T-bird, a national show-winner a few years ago and detailed with the highest regard to authenticity and factory correctness. "Judges" looked it over and took notes, but they had no clue as to anything other than outward appearance. And when the time came to ask for a copy of the judging sheets, it was "oops, sorry, we threw them away" as an excuse to provide them. Appearance and relationships were everything. And these were supposed to be MCA-certified "judges."

At a similar show by another Mustang club, the guy next to me also had a '63 - very nice, but lots of little deviations from original. He also was a member of said Mustang club and just got the car at Barrett-Jackson earlier in the year. Guess who got the award?

And, with exception of VTCI Regional and International Conventions, I've never gotten judging results back from a hosting group, including International Show Car Association (ISCA). That part really gets my goat - we'll take your money for the privilege of showing, but we won't let you know what our judges found. At least at a VTCI Convention if I have had my car judged I'll get the sheets back so I can work on items for the next time.

So, my expectations of judging at events other than a VTCI-sanctioned Regional or International Convention (which is a much different kink of event than the local parking lot show) are that (1) the people doing the judging probably have an agenda ("I don't like Fords" or "unless it's got lots of chrome or the most-current fad items it doesn't deserve my attention"), (2) you won't get the judging sheets because they don't want you to be able to compare notes with others, and (3) their judging criteria will be nowhere near what I'd expect from a national club which has a true judging program with detailed judging forms, manuals spelling out critera for review, etc.

[YellowRose]

Yellow Rose - A Garage Queen??

Alan, I thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated and will be helpful to me and anyone else on the Forum who is planning on showing their Tbird. I have already learned from new friends I made yesterday, to stay away from certain shows because they are not judged fair. This from a couple who have a car and a truck that they show often. They gave me the names. They said if you enjoy showing your vehicle, just to meet new people, see the different cars or trucks, then go, and if you are one of the lucky ones chosen, then that is good. If not, try again. I have enjoyed meeting new people and making new friends, and learning from them. But I also would like a fair shake in the judging, and, apparently, from you have said, and others have also, that is often not the case. I will go to the next several shows and see how it goes. If it gets to be a drag, I might reconsider showing her down the road. Thanks again for your important comments!

[scumdog]

Factor in the "good buddy" system when judges let personal biases and relationships determine who gets what, and you'll soon begin to sniff out events where quality and objectivity really are important versus playing favorites with friends of the sponsors, judges or show promoters..

THAT is a fair comment on a lot of shows that are smaller and in an area where the judges are also selected from, bias and who-knows-who is a large influence in these situations.

[Penelope]

These are the very reasons I dont bother entering the judgement part of car shows that I attend, I just dont think its all worth it. The fun of a car show to me is chewing the fat with other like minded folk....way better than worrying about trophies and the like!

[Rigormortor]

Talking about car show judging huh?! Well let me tell you about KY. They have "Open" shows which you know is any year car. 50's cars do not do well, the judges who are mostly 15-21?? I dont understand that one, like muscle cars, new cars and the tuner/ricer cars.... plus you have to be in a click, or the founder of the local large car club.... real BS in my book. I see cars with rust and no interior win trophies as a fully restored 58 Edsel gets nothing.... best in show goes to a 2003 mustang v-6 convertible, or an 04 cavalier 4 door with walmart wheel covers..... well I see it is who you know around here and not what kind of car you have. I still goto the shows cuz thats what I like to do, meet people, talk to them about their cars, and see all the unique rides out there.... my Dodge has done pretty good this year surprisingly since they hate 50's or older cars. We have the T-Bird for just a couple shows. I guess I will have to move to goto a REAL car show.....

[jackbird60]

Hi Ray,

Personally, not a big fan of car shows and prizes. Sure it's a bit of a tickle to get a prize or trophy for your car, but like one guy said, a lot of it has to do with who you know and the age group. As also stated here, I think the cars of the 50's and early sixties where nothing short of styling beauties, but a lot of kids in their late teens and 20's, and early thirties like the gear head cars (Nothing wrong with that!) and so these magnificient looking cars get over looked by the young crowd. (sometimes)

Again, that's why I am not a fan of car shows. We have cruise nights here around the chicagoland area and there is probably about 30-35 a week. Then car shows on top of that. I stay away from the cars shows. One, lots of clubs involved (Again , nothing wrong with that) that will pile on votes for there buddies, etc. Also if judged, basically the same thing happens. These so call judges are local, s-o-o-o, they is always someone they know, etc.

So, I'd consider the source where you're going Ray. Your car is exceptionally nice, and I am sure it's appreciated by the many that see it going down the street, etc. But car show awards can be brutal to your ego.

I would stay away and keep that extra money in my pocket and enjoy talking about cars etc to others at those wonderful cruise nights. (Lots of free entertainment as well!!)

Take care,

Jack

[Dan Leavens]

Rya Alan's comments are right on the money and the others as well. I would personally never take mine to be judged, as I would suspect he/she would be horizontal after I knocked them out.I was asked by our club to have " Maggie " 58 judged to see where she would stand and said no.What relevance does it have if there is too much much overspray of glue on the trunk seal( apparently from the factory ) side mirror attached where WE wanted it for safety or presumably the wrong floor mats While I am all for authenticity these classics are ours and we get to put our personality into them. Enjoy the restorations and thanks to everyone who has made them survivors

[Anders]

Rya Alan's comments are right on the money and the others as well. I would personally never take mine to be judged, as I would suspect he/she would be horizontal after I knocked them out.I was asked by our club to have " Maggie " 58 judged to see where she would stand and said no.What relevance does it have if there is too much much overspray of glue on the trunk seal( apparently from the factory ) side mirror attached where WE wanted it for safety or presumably the wrong floor mats While I am all for authenticity these classics are ours and we get to put our personality into them. Enjoy the restorations and thanks to everyone who has made them survivors

Totally spot on my point of wiew as well.