Crank, crank, crank.....................start

[trim code 76]

Got another one for you.... My engine is 100% factory original unrestored down to the last detail. I had the original gas tank cleaned and lined (they did an outstanding job). I have a factory fuel pump with the vacum wiper assist top. The carb is the original carb, rebuilt by Pony Carbs in New Mexico(?). They did an awsome job as well. My question is this: I drive the car min. once a month, start it twice a month. A little more during summer when it is it's turn to go to a show. When it has sat for a while, I have a hard time getting it intially started. Goes like this: Pump the gas pedal 2 full times, short crank, 2 full times short crank..............for about 10 or 11 times maybe as much as 14 before it will pop once, then another pump of the gas pedal and it will start and then runs like a dream. I would rather not have to go through this. I do not know if the gas is draining out of the carb or what. If I start it first thing in the day (for going to a show, then start it late in the day to return, no problems, starts right now for going home. car runs beautifuly. Any ideas guys???

[JohnG]

Can we assume the ignition system is in a good state of tune? (points are clean, dwell is good and timing near on?)
Are the spark plugs gapped properly? (the out of the box settings are way too wide for a stock ignition)

Secondly, is your choke adjusted properly? Could it be a little too open?

You say it runs well when warm or used often so this would seem to rule out a vacuum leak (like you knocked a hose off something while working on it)

Those aside, it sounds like you don't get gas for awhile. If it were my car, I would temporarily hook up my electric fuel pump instead of the mechanical pump and see if that made a noticable difference. (I keep a low pressure electric pump around for all sorts of purposes and have come to value the thing).

If the electric pump made no difference, I would wonder if the float level settings were a little too low.

The main thing I learned from working on these cars was to never take anything for granted.

John

ps You said you had your tank overhauled. There is a little screen in them where the line connects. it is not removable. Do you know how they handled that? Clean it? Remove it?
Just curious...

[KULTULZ]

The first thing you should do before attempting to start is remove the air cleaner top, open the choke butterfly and manually operate the accelerator and see if shots of fuel are introduced into the venturis. If so, you have fuel in the bowl. If not, you have a leak somewheres or more likely, today's fuel is blended for a completely closed system (EVAP) and will evaporate much more quickly than fuel of say ten or twenty years ago.

The fuel will actually evaporate via the bowl vents on extended shutdowns on a carbureted vehicle.

[JohnG]

Gary, that's extremely good advice. Using it, he will be able to tell right away if there is a fuel shortage after sitting.

The higher evaporation rate was one of the reasons I came to like the electric pump. I also have a field truck that sits for a long time often, and I got sick of beating up the starter and battery while the mechanical pump slowly moved gas up to the carb. With the electric pump I can just turn the key on for a minute, let it move some gas, and then crank the motor over.

thanks!
John

[Dan Leavens]

Guys great stuff on suggestions for Greg in the start up problem and all very valid especially, with the new blend of gasoline. I had the same problem on my 58HT last year and it turned out to be bad plug wires that were very old.

Dano Calgary,Alberta Canada

[trim code 76]

Thanks for the info guys, I will check the carb this AM and get back to you. The plug wires are brand new , out of the fomoco box, factory items. Had to look very long and hard for them (!-8 numbers on them). Being that the car runs well once started, no hesitations and that it will start up right away after sitting 8 hrs and cooling down I am willing to think that the gas is evaporating. The carb will tell as it has been about a week since I drove it last.

[Anders]

Mine does the same, but with a Overhauled 390 (401), and new Edelbrock.
I buy that "evaporate" theory right off. ( Da** new petrol, without led and everything...) Makes a lot of sence. Enough for me anyway...

[KULTULZ]

Well, this suggestion is offered in the belief that the ignition and fuel system is in top shape. PERTRONIX II would make a world of difference for all of you guys (IMO).

The electric fuel pump is a very good idea but needs to be mounted @ the fuel tank so as to push the fuel. They are not designed to pull. The mechanical pump (if retained) will act as the pressure regulator.

The filter on the fuel pickup should be replaceable. I do not have that early of an MPC, but the basic part no. is 9A011. If one of you can check your MPC. There is a 5/16" and a 3/8" pickup filter.

BTW- There was a poster on another forum that retro-fitted his car with an early mechanical EVAP (evaporative emissions) System (FORD). Hardly noticeable and it will help prevent this and also gas fume smells (taking into consideration the carb is calibrated properly).

This and a functional PCV System will get you out of the dark ages and make engine life much longer...

[YellowRose]

Crank, crank, crank.............start

When I was having fuel pump/carb problems with my '59 Tbird, it was suggested that one of the things I do (in addition to keeping the vacuum fuel pump in place because it supplies vacuum to the windshield wipers) was to install an electric fuel pump. So I did. It is mounted back close to the gas tank as KULTULZ said. Like JohnG, when I turn on the key, I let the electric fuel pump do it's thing for a minute or less, and crank it over. It chatters when you first turn the key on for a few seconds until it pumps the gas through the system, but that ends quickly. Like KULTULZ suggests, my Tbird also has the Pertronix II system and it works great! No points to worry about wearing or adjusting.

Another thing it does, since my gas gauge is not set completely accurate yet, is let me know when I am getting low on gas. In my case, if that electric fuel pump starts chattering while I am idling, or driving, I know I had better find a gas station quickly.

[JohnG]

I have the electric fuel pump mounted on the fender wall, near the mechanical fuel pump... works fine there.

[Anders]

Well, this suggestion is offered in the belief that the ignition and fuel system is in top shape. PERTRONIX II would make a world of difference for all of you guys (IMO).

Have that. New spark plugs and a brand new Fuel tank also, since the original exploded...., and fresh filters all over.
I also checked the amount of fuel in the carb and in the lines once ( after my choke "issues..." ), and if the car have sitting for a week, the fuel just seems to disapear somewhere....

[trim code 76]

Ok, carb pumps gas just fine, so there is no problem with it going dry.....HOWEVER I did find that my choke was open about 1/2" in this cold weather (Garage is not heated right now, too high of gas bill this month). My choke should be basically just about closed now, unless I am missing something. My guess is that is my problem, somehow got out of adjustment. I will have to readjust it in the next couple of days (read the manual, forgot how to...crap). I think that should cure the problem.

[YellowRose]

Crank, crank, crank.............start

Hi TC,

There was quite a discussion about the proper setting of the butterfly when cold and not having been started for awhile. I know that bcomo and I had a number of discussions about this. My butterfly is open 1/8" of an inch when cold. I just went out in the garage, took off the air filter and checked it again. I think that is the recommended setting, but one of the technically proficient guys should be able to verify that. I think Bart's, like yours, was open a lot more at that time.

[protourbird]

Ray is correct. 90% of carburetors use the 1/8" measurement. A 1/8" drill bit works the best as a gauge. If you still have the original choke you may want to check the bi-metal coil inside the housing and in real cold climates I have seen just slightly rich of 1/8"

[trim code 76]

With regards to the carb, it was just rebuilt using factory parts. so the bimetal spring should be go to go. My shop manual is a little sketchy on the choke adjust ment. Do I use the black cap (loosing the three screws that hold it down) and make the adjustment buy turning it like it states in the manual or there was some linkage that could be adjusted by loosing up a small srew and nut, pinching the choke plate closed then resecurring the screw. How do you guys do it?? Problem solving is one of the joys of having an old car!!