60 T-Bird , top goes down but not up

[pghpa412james]

I had to repair my convertible top. so i pushed the top button and the trunk opened, then the tray opened, the the top when 1/3 way down and i stopped it. I fixed the top with screws to hold the material down. Then i went to put the top back up and nothing happened. The power switch has current, but nothing happens. Anyone help me , tell me what to look for . also i put an HEI distributor in and now the car will not start. I did what they said and made sure the rotor pointed to number one , took out the old dist. and put the new one in. turned the key, the motor turned over but will not start. Please email me at jamesrozzo@yahoo.com or call me and talk 412-=464-2918 thank you jim

[lawyercalif]

Just cause its pointing to number one does not mean it is timed right. You could be 180 degrees off. You need to make sure that the number one cylinder is on the compression stroke and then point the rotor at #1. You can check compression by taking the spark plug out and putting your finger over the hole while turning the crank with a wrench until air pushes out.

[jopizz]

As far as your top goes if it won't go up or down make sure the trunk lid and/or flip lid didn't tilt forward and lose contact with the limit switches. That would cause your top to stop working. If that checks out ok then I would look for power at the pump motor.

[simplyconnected]

Jim, I cannot stress the importance of taking lots of pictures. I know hindsight is 20/20, but if you had taken pictures of your rotor before you removed the distributor it would tell the story.

I agree with lawyercalf, but I have a different way to find TDC:
Remove the driver's side (LH) valve cover and crank the engine. Look at #6 rocker arms. The exhaust valve will go down then up and the intake valve will start down. When both rocker arms are dead level, your #1 cylinder is in its power stroke AT TDC. Verify this at the timing marks to be sure your damper pulley hasn't moved.

Right at this point, drop your distributor so that the rotor is pointed at #1 spark plug tower.

Replace the valve cover, time your spark, and your engine should run just fine. - Dave

[YellowRose]

60 T-Bird , top goes down but not up

I got an email from Jim about his distributor. He did not say if he got his top problem fixed, but maybe he did. I will ask him. Here is what he had to say.

"Dear Ray, my friend, I got my t-bird running. an older guy from uniontown about 1 hour south of pgh. called and came to buy my old wheels and tires. i told him what i was doing and he was very interested why i did everything right and the car would not start. so i showed him , spark plug out of number one crank till pop then line up crank to 0 took cap off rotor pointing to number one and showed him wiring had current. put plug back in and with remote starter and a direct hot line to distributor i cranked the motor and it just turned over and did not start . his name was buck, buck said TURN THE DISTRIBUTOR , i did and she started right up. seems that i was just a little off to the point where the car would not start. then i timed it, adjusted the new carb and it runs good. when the sun goes down and its a little cooler my wife and i are going for the first ride to the ice cream shop. wait till all those people see a 1960 t-bird."

[lawyercalif]

I'm sorry I didn't mention advancing the distributor. I had to do that on my new engine to get it to run smooth and not backfire through the carb. Book says 6 degrees advanced but I find mine takes a lot more than that to run good.

[YellowRose]

60 T-Bird , top goes down but not up

Here is what Jim had to say after he and his wife went to the ice cream parlor. Lawyercalif I will tell him to read what you said. I see he set his at 8. I think I will suggest that he try to clean the contacts instead of going through the expense of replacing all of the relays.

"Hi Ray, well we got back from the ice cream parlor. First the top does work, but the relays are old and some have rust on the terminals. so next month i will replace all 12 relays. when i went to the ice cream pallor the motor ran good but was lacking power. i set time at 8 degrees, tomorrow i think i will raise the timing a few degrees to get more power. other than that, the car is beautiful. 9 out of 10 people who drove past the ice cream pallor hollered out their window-------nice car! at the gas station the guy there said the car is beautiful. getting lots of complements. jim"

[YellowRose]

60 T-Bird , top goes down but not up

Jim found the carb problem and fixed it. Here is what he had to say.

"jim here. just wanted to say i fixed my carb linkage problem. turns out when i put a new summit racing 600 cfm carb on i used a return spring that was too tight or strong. what it was doing is when you push down on the gas pedel the kick down linkage was opening and not opening the throttle. when you push down all the way on the gas pedel the carb would open only 1/2 inch or so. not full power. by putting a less strong return spring on , when i push down on the gas pedel the throtle plate opens all the way then the kick down linkage opens. fixed it.............."

[dgs]

At $50 per relay for 12, that $600 is a good way to the $800-$900 for the solid state replacement. If I was going to have to replace 'em all, I think I'd just do the solid state.

From my understanding, these old relays work best when they're exercised regularly. If your top is functional now, (and correct me if I'm wrong guys), you ought to run it up and down a few times to clean the contacts on those relays and maybe pull them off and sand the terminals. They ought to work well then.

And if you do replace 'em all, by all means don't through the old ones out!

[YellowRose]

60 T-Bird , top goes down but not up

I second Doug's suggestion and I think I will bring this to Jim's attention, in case he has not seen this. I just looked at John Draxler's website http://www.tbirdranch.com/ to see if he is still offering that solid state replacement system and he is, at $600 listed, plus shipping. I understand it works well. When you go to his site, slide down the left side til you find the link "Convertible Relay Replacement System" for 1960-1966 Tbird Convertibles.

As Doug say, if you do replace those relays with the solid state version, hang on to them because someone else might want them...

[dgs]

$600 is a pretty good price. I just had to replace a single relay and noted the solid state system listed at one vendor (don't remember where) for $800 I believe.

[simplyconnected]

I'm going to stick my neck out and maybe lose some friends, but...
Please don't do solid state relays. Your mechanical relays lasted over fifty years. Can you name one solid state device that lasted even twenty years outside?

Mechanical relays are very hearty and practically bulletproof. They still operate in the coldest and hottest environments. They don't care about spikes and surges but they don't like dirt. So, to keep relays going strong, USE THEM. Frequent use actually cleans the contacts.

OEM's use mechanical relays in modern cars. They pass up to 40-amps without heatsinks and are very compact. There's nothing wrong with constructing a relay panel using modern plug-in relays. These relays are easy to troubleshoot. Just my two cents. - Dave

You can buy new mechanical 12-volt, 40-amp relays with sockets: 10 for $25 including free shipping.

Charging $600 for solid state relays is nothing short of being downright immoral. They won't last as long, are sensitive to static electricity, and are harder to troubleshoot. I love all things electrical and electronic but this is plain wrong. - Dave

[kuusamon]

my 2 cents worth, I agree with Dave, I was looking at that modernized replacement set on internet too, never the intention to buy it because the relays themselves are not expensive to buy, but you just have to wire them. But I know how sensitive that type of relays are and they will not last more than maybe 5 or 6 years.
I am more of 'sticking with original' type of guy unless it is better, safer and a big (necessary) improvement.
Those old mechanical relays have been in there since the factory and most of them still work so that is over 50 years. Few days ago I bought a complete original tray with 12 relays on fleabay for about 60 dollars just to have some spares.
Some relays that came with my car I have 'operated on'. Carefully you are able to open them and clean the contacts inside if needed with contact cleaner and/or very fine sand paper. A problem might be if the outside connector tabs are broken of, they are not easy to replace/fix but it is possible. Only part in the relay that is not easy replaceable is if the coil is burned.
Everything is working fine in my car now with the old relays, hopefully for another 50 years.....
regards,
ron