Just When You Think You Have It Made..

[Dutchbird]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

Hi John,

Go to Anything Goes. This link will take you to the pictures of Start Lock...

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6131

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

John,

That link below this will tell you all about Start Lock, and where you can get them from. There are links to them there. I have mine on and it seems to be doing the trick, though my Bird has been in the shop ever since I got it. You can unscrew the knob, put it in your pocket, walk away and no one can start that car.

[Guest]

Hey Ray!
I starting putting Christine back together last night. Checked everything and I have dash lights. I wraped everything up and put some fire in the cylinders. She was purring like a big cat, I mean big BIRD, and my gas guage and temp guage went all the way over and then went to dead! After checking the Constant Voltage Regulator burnt up. I called Thunderbird Headquarters and they have one on the way. DARN!!! I wanted to get her out so bad! Ah well maybe next week! Good luck on Rose!!!

[JohnG]

you might get a voltage regulator at Radio Shack. Depends on what they happen to stock. All you care is 12 V DC in and 6 V DC out. No guarantees but possible.

Make sure none of the wires on the back of the dash going to either gauge shorted out (which would have smoked the regulator). You don't want to put the new one in and have it go up in smoke as well.

john

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

Hi Richard,

It really bugs me why these CVR units blow. That is my second one. I do not know if it was something that my mechanic did when he was checking readings from the gas tank sending unit or what. All he did was take it out of the tank, get a good ground on it (or what he thought was a good ground) and move the sensor back and forth up and down its scale, while watching the movement of the gauge needle through the gap in the trunk lid. I was standing at the drivers side window and watching it swing through its arc, as if it was in the tank. It was working normally out of the tank. The temperature gauge was pointing to the left leg of the letter M in temp, where it runs normally at because the engine was still heated from driving it. Everything was checking out normally. We never did figure out why the indicator was over on the Empty side with a full tank of gas. With the sender in the tank, it would not read full. We have no idea why it would not.

All of a sudden, I saw the temperature gauge go to below the C for Cold, and the gas gauge stopped working. No one was under the dash messing with any wiring at all.. We don't know what caused it to blow.

I have a replacement CVR unit and gauge coming in from Griff at Bird Nest that will be here probably on Tuesday. He put a reconditioned gauge and back plate behind my face plate, put new indicators on it and is sending it back. He tested both the gauge and the CVR unit to make sure both were working normally, and they are. He hooked them up to each other and tested and calibrated them too. Everything is fine. I do know that I have at least one wire on a connector going to the back of the gauge that is frayed and the insulation is worn off. That lead and every lead supply power to and from the CVR unit to the gauge, is going to be checked out and repaired.

We do not know if another wire was laying across that frayed connection or not. The engine was off and we just had it in the On position or whatever that position is called before you start it, while we were testing the gauge.

I wish there was a way to replace those gauges with 12v gauges, but anything you replaced them with would not look like the present gauge and would not match the rest of the gauges. What a mickey mouse way to handle the gauge in this car

It was explained to me that the gauge manufacturers back then refused to make 12v gauges for these cars because they thought the 12v system on cars was a flash in the pan, would not last, and the car manufacturers would go back to the old 6v systems quickly. Well, they were wrong... So Ford and others got stuck with 6v gauges for a few years and had to come up with some mickey mouse way of getting 6v to the gauges. The step down voltage CVR unit was their way of doing it.

I am sure sorry to hear that yours went out on you also. I was within minutes of getting mine out of the shop for good when this happened. In fact, I was on my way home with her. She was going to the interior guy next to get a interior beauty treatment!

[Guest]

Ray,
I read your post. I was just setting here wondering, what would be involved in converting these factory guages over to 12 volts. Also I wonder if a 12 volt to 6 volt transfomer would not work better? I know these can be bought.
I have a old fuel guage and temp guage here, I'm going to do a little tinkering. If I figure out anything I will let you know.
My guages were working fine, then all the sudden they went over to full and over to hot (no smoke) then quit.

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

Hi Richard,

Mine was the reverse of yours! My fuel gauge was reading about empty. The Temp gauge was reading normal, on the left leg of the M. All of a sudden, they went to full left, to Empty and Cold. If you figure anything out, me and most everyone on here would love to know. If they have not had problems with the CVR unit going and/or taking out the gauges, sooner or later, they will!

[Guest]

Hey Ray,
I took my old one apart. There are small pieces of metal in it about 1 1/4" x 3/16". The one leg is the adjustment and only moves if you turn the adjustment. The other leg has a very fine wire wrapped around it, the small wire is set up to have power on one end and ground on the other. The adjusting leg holds the needle in place and when power is applied the one with the small wire around it gets hot and moves. How much power is applied determines how much it moves.
I believe if I could get a later model 12 volt I could figure out a way to switch out the guts and make it work. The only problem would be if later model is to large to fit inside the '58-'60 housing.
I'm not going to give up!

[JohnG]

There are a number of shops that specialize in repairs of old car instrumentation (see Hemming's Classifieds) and all will do conversions from 6 to 12V for you. Main problem is...it won't be cheap. You can call or write them and get quotes though.

John

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

Hi John,

Thanks for that bit of information regarding converting 6v gauges to 12v. It might not be cheap, but I have already paid out considerable money on new CVR units, and having my gauges reconditioned. This last incident is going to cost my auto repair shop $200 for a new CVR unit and gauge because they threw away the core. So there is a core charge involved this time, since I had no core to send in. Just the back and face plate, no needles, nothing else!

So maybe, in the long rong, converting the gauges to 12V is a better way to go. I can get rid of that CVR unit and have 12V gauges instead of 6V. I will look into this. Thanks again.

I did some googling on Hemmings and found this information. I am going to get in contact with them and see what they have to say about converting that gas/temp gauge to 12V and get rid of that CVR unit..

Ford instruments

Location: Collinsville, Virginia

Notes:

CLOCK repair and quartz conversions, tachometers, speedometers, gauges and clusters, 12v conversions, show quality restorations, quick turnaround, low prices and guaranteed satisfaction. AutoInstruments.com, 2125 Virginia Ave, Collinsville, VA 24078, PH: 877-450-0110 toll-free.**5-YR**

JohnG just gave me another source for gauge conversion from 6v to 12v. They are: Bob's Speedometer http://www.bobsspeedometer.com/1/120/index.asp They have been in business for decades. I left them a message. They are closed on weekends.

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

Here is the latest report and pictures on the re-wiring of the instrument panel. That rats nest has been cleaned out, the wires all straightened out, wires that went no where, hooked to nothing, taken out, each wire that needed it was shrink wrapped to keep the present insulation from breaking off further, wires were repaired that needed to be. Wires were laid out in three main sections. Those going to the left side of the console, those to the center, and those to the right. Then they were wire loomed to make it look much nicer and prevent future wiring problems. It is almost like having a new wiring harness installed.

In the middle, on the left "horseshoe" support, you see the CVR unit, with the red wire hanging down, going to the gauges. Someone coated that thing with that black coating they used. That unit, to my knowledge is shot and is being replaced with the new solid state CVR unit. Right to the left of it is another block connector, also coated. Does anyone know what that is? I have no idea what it controls.

I took a picture to let you see what it looked like before, the first picture, and then two taken today.

[Guest]

Hey Ray,
That looks much better. Getting everything organized so that each wire has a place to be and has some extra protection from all the sharp objects in there.
You done the same thing I did on mine, things that go to the right are fixed on the right, things on the left are fixed on the left and center are fixed in the center.
This also makes it much simpler reinstalling the instrument cluster.
As far as the other part beside the CVR. I have not got a clue. My '60 only had the CVR, and there was no other contact terminal like that behind my instrument cluster.
If you have not put it back, I think I would do some checking and see what it went to. That way if something quits that may be the culprit and if you don't know what it is for now with dash apart you may have trouble locating the problem.
When I had mine apart I done some checking and made some mental notes of what went where. So next time I have a problem and have checked all I can check, without taking dash apart. If I cannot find problem I will know where to look, behind the instrument cluster.
The ignition and the headlight switch handle just about everything that is electrical with these old Birds. Its nice to know what wire goes to what!

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

I took a look at that other "box" next to the CVR unit this morning. It is a circuit breaker and it is in use. Or will be again, when they hook everything back up. It was hanging in that ball of wires and the mechanic, when straightening out that mess, decided to tack it to the support column and put it next to the CVR unit. That is why it looked out of place. It looks like it is an original part. It is coated with that black stuff they used in that and other areas.

[trim code 76]

Ray,
When I asked you to send me pics of your car,.... I did not mean the wire schematics!LOL. Hey on the third pic you have posted just to the right and up slightly from your ignition switch... is that the fabled/mysterious in line black fuse holder that is for your brake lights?? The one that most of the wiring diagrams do not show?? You guys helped me find mine if you remember (THANKS!!!!!). Just curous if yours has it also. Mine was to the left of the switch.
Greg

[YellowRose]

Just When You Think You Have It Made..

Hi Greg,

I cannot answer your question regarding if that is the fabled inline black fuse holder for the brake lights.It looks like it could be, just from looking at the picture, but I do not know.