Disc Conversion Kit

[Sherman]

thanks for your help today. I wanted to show you the booster on page 95 on that link...my bad. Have a good day.

[DKheld]

Most likely you could use your standard KH under dash booster on a conversion but there would be lots of challenges. First off the original master cyl has 4 bolts and all the disc/drum or disc/disc master cyl's I could find would have only 2 bolts so you would have to drill mounting holes in the firewall. That would be the easy part. Then there would be finding the right master cyl pushrod length to work correctly with the booster. After getting that all set up those K/H boosters don't produce as much "boost" as the newer dual action style so it may work marginally.

I installed disc brakes on my car about 10 years ago when installing the Granada spindles were the only thing available. I have the Bendix under hood booster though. It works but having the car aligned takes a really good shop. I've got mine set nicely now and hope to post the specs in the near future for those unfortunate enough to go that route.

About 2 years ago I decided to add A/C to my non A/C car and had to extend my under hood (Bendix) booster out to clear the evaporator box. There was actually a factory kit for this but in 10+ years of looking I have only seen one. I made my own.

I also had Booster Dewey (Power Brake Booster Exchange) rebuild and modify my original Bendix booster to accept a modern disc/drum master cyl. Works fine but I have not compared the difference to the dual action which I'm sure would produce more boost and less pedal effort.

I'd stick with the advice of those who have done it rather than those looking at a catalog and telling you it "should" fit. Wasted a lot of time and money on mine that way.

Don't forget - right now the system is a single line drum system so if going disc/drum you need to split the system front to back (add lines etc), add a proportioning valve and make some provision for a brake light switch (original style is a fluid switch on the end of the master cyl). I added mine into the rear brake system since it was still drum. Another fellow here used a switch mounted on the pedal housing inside the car. (swapping or adding the spindles is the easy part)

Good luck,
Eric

Modified Bendix booster




Factory kit to move the Bendix booster up and out to clear the Evaporator plenum.


Granada setup on my 1960 w/352

[YellowRose]

Disc Conversion Kit

Sherman, that link you posted to ABS shows a front/rear disc brake set up and it says at the bottom, if I read that right, it is for 17" rims... If you are going to do just the front brakes, you do not need to be paying for parts you will not use. As for the dual MC/2 Stage 8" booster shown on Page 95, that looks like ours, except ours are both chromed. You can get the MBM or ABS type versions for a lot cheaper on the Internet. Check out some of the recent posts about this, as to who supplies them. One set up, dual MC/2 Stage 8" power booster was selling for $75, as I recall!

You can buy a kit, once you are certain that their mounting bracket will work with your evaporator box, and get all or most of the parts you need, but you must be certain that the rotors will fit in 14" disc brake ready rims, (IF you can find them easily). You also need to be sure that their mounting bracket is going to get you past the evaporator box. You are also going to need a combination valve for front and rear braking. GM or Ford. I like the GM one that Marcelo, myself and Howard used, but Ford works well also. Eric gave you a lot of good advice and he is a very experienced techie when it comes to our Tbirds. He went, as he said, the Granada route years ago, because at that time, that was all there was. That way requires the spindles to be shaved, and can cause front end alignment problems. Going the way Marcelo, myself and Howard went, we used our spindles on our Tbirds just as they are and had no alignment problems...

[Sherman]

Okay... I spent the evening reading the 31 page discussion on this issue and I am overwhelmed.

So, IF the MC/Brake Booster from MBM or ABS will fit an A/C car (which you think it does) than the only dilemma that remains would be finding a company that will sell JUST the caliper brackets that will work with 14 inch spoke wheels.

If I buy those brake parts individually, only then can I save myself some money by purchasing the remainder of the generic items locally. Otherwise, it seems that I am forced to by the kit that will include everything.

I also understand that some of the companies are using the same caliper brackets but are substituting lower profile calipers for buyers with 14 inch wheels. Or they are adding a spacer to move the wheel out.


I've also learned of an interference problem with the sway bar.

Is anything on this car simple??

[YellowRose]

Disc Conversion Kit

The MBM Part #'s that Howard, Marcelo, and myself used for our dual MC and 2 Stage 8" Power Booster work. We got ours from Old Irish Dave when he was still in business. Now you can get them from Pirate Jack, or you can buy them even cheaper from other vendors. The ABS versions are probably the same ones as the MBM ones..

We got our caliper-spindle mounting brackets from Scarbird. He knows exactly what you need if you tell him the year of your Tbird. His mounting brackets are the best. You do not want to go cheap on them... We used them on our 14" disc brake ready rims. I have no idea if your 14" spoked rims are disc brake ready or not...

You will need a spacer and you can get that locally at one of the auto parts houses. The information on all you will need is now available to our Paid Members only.

Even if you buy someones kit, it may not have everything you need or more than you need. You will certainly need to buy a combination valve, new connectors for it, new brake tubing, and other components to plumb the new system to the front brakes, and rear brakes. New brake hoses, etc..

As for the sway bar, I have heard that some people have had a problem with rubbing only on sharp turns. I have not had that problem, nor has Marcelo or Howard that I know of. I think Marcelo put the heavy duty sway bar on his on the front. It is a good thing to do, front and back, as it will certainly improve the ride. I have not done it yet, but want to.

We decided to not invest our money in someones kit that might not do what we wanted it to do. So we put down on paper all the parts needed to replace the OEM MC, (and OEM Bendix booster under the hood if it had one) with new dual MC/2 Stage 8" Power Booster and disc brake equipment. Then we bought all the parts needed and did the conversion...

Yes, there are things on this car that are simple! I hope the information helps.

[simplyconnected]

...IF the MC/Brake Booster from MBM or ABS will fit an A/C car (which you think it does) than the only dilemma that remains would be finding a company that will sell JUST the caliper brackets that will work with 14 inch spoke wheels...

Ray thinks so because he is RUNNING those part on his Squarebird and he HAS factory A/C.

If you had a late '59 or '1960 factory PB booster under the hood, this would be an easy retrofit. Everything from the booster back to the brake pedal would remain stock. You would simply grind the rivets off the factory booster and add a modern two-stage booster and dual m/c, a combination proportioning valve and Scarebird brackets that hold S-10 brakes. We have members who have this setup so we know it works well. I am using most of this on our '59 Galaxie (which shares the same front spindles with Squarebirds).

...If I buy those brake parts individually, only then can I save myself some money by purchasing the remainder of the generic items locally. Otherwise, it seems that I am forced to by the kit that will include everything.

I also understand that some of the companies are using the same caliper brackets but are substituting lower profile calipers for buyers with 14 inch wheels. Or they are adding a spacer to move the wheel out.

You're on the right track but a couple facts need tweaking. You can MAKE your own firewall bracket and brake pedal components if you can fabricate. Some of our members have done precisely that and are running just fine on their Squarebirds. You see, there isn't enough demand for a company to make dies for our application. We get about three guys per year who are serious about this.

In my opinion, the whole feel of the car changes dramatically with front disk brakes. They will put you through the windshield. Of the guys who went to disks, NONE of them want to revert back to drums. They keep their old part just in case a new owner wants stock parts.

...I've also learned of an interference problem with the sway bar...

Some companies offer disk kits that interfere with the sway bar. Some also offer four-piston kits. I would NOT recommend any of these. I do recommend either swapping Granada spindles and using that Ford setup OR a better alternative is to keep your OEM spindles, add a 1-1/8" front sway bar AND a rear sway bar, and buy the SCAREBIRD brackets. The Scarebird brackets retain your OEM geometry which means you don't need a front end alignment simply because you added disk brakes. Scarebird brackets also come with a spindle spacer to put your front wheels (rotors) at OEM (drum) distance. In other words, after you're done, the spindle nut will be in the same place it was when you ran drums.

Both the Scarebird and Granada setups put the calipers behind the wheel center line instead of in front. This does not interfere with stock sway bar mounting or functions.

Since rear brakes do very little to stop a car, most folks retain their stock rear drum brakes and keep the original Emergency Brake function. - Dave

[Sherman]

Got-it...I like the route of using the Scarebird caliper bracket with the booster from MBM or ABS and buying the other parts locally.
The only problem now is that my 14 spoke wheels may or may not fit with the Scarebird bracket? Does anyone know if they are disc brake compatible? I purchased them from Larry's in 2005-2006.

I also donated to the site to become a member. Where do I go to view the steps that others have taken?

Thanks again,

[YellowRose]

Disc Conversion Kit

Hi Sherman, I am going to email you some additional information. As to where to go to find more of the disc brake conversion information, as I said in my email thanking you for becoming a Paid Member, look down in the Members Conference Forum in the Members Only thread.

[jopizz]

As far as the wire wheels go I doubt that they are disc brake compatible. They are listed as 14x5 1/2 which is the original spec. I believe they need to be at least 14x6 to fit the caliper. You are probably better off calling Larry's and asking them to be sure.

John

[YellowRose]

Disc Conversion Kit

Thanks, John because I forgot to comment on the rim situation. As I recall you are right about needing 14x6" disc brake ready rims. I was also going to suggest that he call Larrys and see what they say. But, like you said, if he wants to stay with 14" rims, he is gonna have to hunt up some 14x6" disc brake ready rims off one of the Ford disc brake equipped cars in the listing. Me, I got 5 of them so that if I ever had more than one flat, all 5 of my rims would fit on the front. I probably could have gotten by with 3, one being the spare. If he is thinking about going to 15" rims down the road, and his tires are old, or worn and need to be replaced, now is the time to do it, before he does this conversion. It is my understanding that he will have no problems with 15" rims.

[jopizz]

I'm sure he paid a lot for the wire wheels so I can understand why he wants to keep them. I haven't seen one recently so I don't know if some sort of wheel spacer will work. I'm sure Larry's or one of the other vendors will know. It's probably a fairly common question.

John

[Sherman]

It is looking link 15"+ wheels is the best way out of this dilemma.
So not to complicate the issue but IF I were to win the lottery, hold up a bank, or get it back from our governor, and purchase new rims and tires what size 15-16" wheels would fit?

I'm not a big fan of the tube in the KH rims but I do like the classy look. Is there anything out there that will fit my KH "Thunderbird" center from the KH wheels?

I could probably sell the KH rims and Coker tires and help off-set the cost.

Is there a way to search this site "images" to see what others have used?

[simplyconnected]

First of all, I have heard that KH wire wheels fit over calipers. Why don't you at least try them???

If they don't fit, you can buy a pair of 14" Bronco wheels.

Either solution costs very little if money is your concern. ALL 15" (and up) wheels fit over calipers.

You do NOT need spacers. They only make your wheels rub on the fender lip.

MBM and ABS do NOT sell Scarebird brackets. You need to buy them from scarebird.com. - Dave

[KULTULZ]

Go Here- http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincat...ameset014.html

And look @ Kit 624

I wouldn't give up my KH for anybody...

[YellowRose]

Disc Conversion Kit

Sherman has OEM AC in his Tbird. Unless ABS guarantee's the mounting bracket they provide with the kit will work on a OEM equipped AC Tbird, that bracket will not work. The mounting bracket must not only clear the evaporator box, but also the steering column and power steering.