1960 Thunderbird Power Brakes With A/c Booster Under The Hood

[jackbird60]

HI,

STUMBLE ON A NICE 1960 TBIRD FOR A GREAT PRICE, BUT THE BRAKES GO TO THE FLOOR. 1ST THOUGHT WAS MASTER CYLINDER SINCE THE BRAKE HOSES LOOK GOOD, AND NO EVIDENCE OF BRAKE FLUID ON THE WHEEL CYLINDERS. PLUS PUMPING DOES NO GOOD.

NOW FOR THE WIERD PART. THIS CAR HAS A/C. I JUST GOT HOLD OF A 1960 MANUAL AND IT SAYS THAT A/C CARS HAVE THE POWER BOOSTER UNDER THE DASH NOT UNDER THE HOOD. I DIDN'T THINK NOTHING OF IT WHEN I BOUGHT IT SINCE I ALWAYS SEEN THEM UNDER THE HOOK. THE A/C APPEARS TO BE ALL ORIGINAL.

IS THIS A PROBLEM????

LOVE THE CAR!
JACK

[bird 60]

Hi Jack,

My '60 has Air & the Booster is under the Dash. Unless I'm mistaken I think this topic was covered a little while back & unless I'm mistaken I think some came out under the Dash as well as in the Engine Bay.
Hoping someone else can help you more.

Chris....From the Land of OZ.

[DKheld]

The dealer had a kit they could use to install A/C in a non A/C car with the Bendix firewall mounted booster. So it's not a problem at all unless you are making a show car and then if you have the factory kit it should pass show inspections anyway. Probably will be an exception but the '60 352 A/C cars had no booster or the Kelsey Hayes booster mounted under the dash.

Mark V(I think) made aftermarket units for these cars but the evap. box on the firewall was smaller and possibly made of metal rather than fiberglass like the factory evap. boxes. Mark V also made a trunk mounted unit.

I am installing factory style A/C in my car but making my own brackets. Mine has the booster under the hood too - someone could have done this to your car.

NAPA and O'Riley's still carries the standard brake master cyl. for about $100. Good time to read the disc brake discussion on this site and consider going that route.

Glad to hear you are enjoying your car.

Eric

http://www.tbirdregistry.com/ft.asp

[jackbird60]

Thanks Eric & Chris!

I Really Like It. Everything Undernbeath Seems To Be Replaced And The Paint Is Very Good. I Just Love Squarebird. Their Designs Are So Unique And Cool Looking. Engine Was Rebuilt About 8 Years Ago. Lots Of Power.

Anyway, I Did Order The Mc From The Bird Nest - New For $67. Suppose To Work For Power Or Non Power Brakes.

Thanks Guys. Again, Happy To Have A Squarebird Again!!! I Am Just Trhilled

Jack

[DKheld]

Glad you found the site - this is THE place for Tbird owners.

Send a few pics if you get time would like to see that A/C set-up.

Eric

[Howard Prout]

Some of the more knowledgable gurus on the site can address this issue better than I but it is my understanding that at some point in the production run of '60 TBirds, Ford switched from Kelsey-Hayes bellows type boosters to Bendix diaphragm type boosters. So depending on when your car was made, it could have come with a factory under-the-hood diaphragm booster. Ford used brackets with not much set out from the firewall with the Bendix boosters which may have caused an interference problem between the booster and the AC plenum. The master cylinders for standard brakes had a 1" bore and those with PB had a 1-1/8" bore. Many with PB have replaced their MCs with 1" bore as they require less foot pressure for braking. Some of us have converted to front disc brakes including new boosters and dual chamber MCs. In my case, I haven't got the new booster working quite right yet but the KH power brake unit handles the disc brakes fairly well. Although my car has factory AC, I found that set out required to accomodate the new booster mechanism was enough to clear the booster housing of the AC plenum.

[tbird430]

Some of the more knowledgable gurus on the site can address this issue better than I but it is my understanding that at some point in the production run of '60 TBirds, Ford switched from Kelsey-Hayes bellows type boosters to Bendix diaphragm type boosters. So depending on when your car was made, it could have come with a factory under-the-hood diaphragm booster. Ford used brackets with not much set out from the firewall with the Bendix boosters which may have caused an interference problem between the booster and the AC plenum. The master cylinders for standard brakes had a 1" bore and those with PB had a 1-1/8" bore. Many with PB have replaced their MCs with 1" bore as they require less foot pressure for braking. Some of us have converted to front disc brakes including new boosters and dual chamber MCs. In my case, I haven't got the new booster working quite right yet but the KH power brake unit handles the disc brakes fairly well. Although my car has factory AC, I found that set out required to accomodate the new booster mechanism was enough to clear the booster housing of the AC plenum.

You nailed it Howard. Ford changed to the underhood power brake booster design in the last 3rd of 1960 production. I don't have an exact month though....

[Guest]

I'm not sure when Ford started using the underhood power booster but my 1960 has a production date of Dec 7,1959 and it had the bendix booster under the hood. I always thought that the underhood booster was because mine has a straight stick and with a clutch pedal that there would not have been room for the underdash K/H booster but I have seen a 59 stick bird with the K/H booster under the dash. Maybe Ford only used the bendix on standard transmissions for a while and decided to go to the underhood setup for all transmission combinations later. It may have been an A/C thing also.
It would be interesting to know why Ford switched.
I imagine cost would be the real reason. I imagine the Kelsey/Hayes setup with all the related parts would be a lot more expensive to produce than the bendix setup. Most changes were cost motivated.

Gary

[jackbird60]

Thanks Guys, That Really Helped. Everything Looked Stock, But I Was Just Wondering Why It Was Under The Hood. Question, Answered!!

Jack