Steve's Ride

[scumdog]

Y
Some folks continue fan operation while the engine is off. I do not, and I think that's a recipe for danger. I want nothing draining my battery when the key is shut off. - Dave

With you on that one Dave - motor ain't running so it's not creating anymore heat.

So why have the fan running?

And as Dave says, it drains your battery - particularly if the temperature activated switch malfunctions.

[Yadkin]

We've been using this table for wire size here, based on the chassis column: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

So if it was a 12v house, we'd be using at least a #6.

No big deal going to #10. Its only 3' or so to the relay box. The relay that we're using is a 5 pin (originally for the Focus fan) so it has the doohickey that absorbs voltage spikes.

Interesting that you'd use a temperature reading on the radiator. The aftermarket units that use a pin type sender through the cores has been discussed here and roundly disapproved of.

[keith]

Great looking project.

[simplyconnected]

We've been using this table for wire size here, based on the chassis column: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

So if it was a 12v house, we'd be using at least a #6.

No big deal going to #10. Its only 3' or so to the relay box. The relay that we're using is a 5 pin (originally for the Focus fan) so it has the doohickey that absorbs voltage spikes.

Copper size, insulation type, ambient temperature, mutual induction from harnesses and raceways, wire separation, frequency, vibration, surrounding chemicals, length, etc., all play a role in choosing the correct wire for your application. I think we all agree that automotive wire size is too small, especially ground and start circuit wires. These big companies get bit in the butt all the time, never for having wire too large but too small.
As a minimum guide, you need wire that is:
•Rated for 12 volts, insulation operates at temperatures of 194°F (90°C), meets or exceeds S.A.E. specification J1128, Ford M1L56A and Chrysler MS 3450. I'm not fond of your chart at all, but we can all find charts that agree with whatever we want. I defer to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) for automotive applications. The bottom line is, your wire must be adequate for the environment it lives in; the copper large enough to safely carry the current and insulation must be capable of shedding heat. It's much better to err on the side of caution (by kicking your wire size up) than to re-do because of catastrophe.

Interesting that you'd use a temperature reading on the radiator. The aftermarket units that use a pin type sender through the cores has been discussed here and roundly disapproved of.

The only disapproval I know of is, placing the thermostat too high in the radiator. Otherwise, that is where it belongs. Like I said, my fan rarely ever comes on in winter, but my engine is a toasty 195°F. Electric fans are much more efficient than mechanical fans because they operate separately, on an 'as needed' basis.
Flex-a-lite is a well-known, well-respected electric fan manufacturer. Here is a how-to video for installation. I agree with everything they do but I would put the thermostat a little lower just in case coolant runs low:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOQQD0LUHMY They also bring up an important point. Don't forget to wire your A/C directly to your relay so the fan turns on every time the A/C runs.

Edit: I was looking around Youtube and found a good video regarding electric fan installations from 4WD Mechanix Magazine: Griffin Electric Radiator Fans & Wiring for Jeep Cherokee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmzHj2cwqIE

Don't ask me why I never thought of it but they use the petcock hole (all the way at the bottom of the radiator) for their temp sender. Brilliant. - Dave

[Yadkin]

My lifters are making noise. There was some contact to the "baldy" valve covers so I installed a thicker Edelbrock gasket. I also readjusted the valves using zero plus 1.25 turns instead of 3/4.

Still noisy. Sounds like lifters. Gets less noisy after warming up. Is this a break in issue? The engine still has not been run on the street. The car has only been moved around the shop and yard since the engine rebuild.

[simplyconnected]

Steve, you should not have lifter noise.

What causes lifters to get noisy? They are hydraulic so they automatically readjust to remove any lash in the valve train unless they can't.

Lifters have a plunger and a check valve inside. Dirty lifters can leak, causing the plunger to collapse. Upon startup, if your oil galleries are full of oil, the lifters will promptly fill back up again and the noise will go away. If that oil is cold and viscous, the noise might take longer because oil flow is slower.

As a kid (with no money), I cleaned and rebuilt my old varnished lifters. I removed the keeper and smacked them on the cement floor a dozen times before the plungers would come out. Most folks would simply buy new ones but I couldn't afford the extra fifty bucks.

After removing the sludge inside the bottom and the varnish on the insides, those old lifters worked freely and sounded just fine.

It is important to set lifters correctly, especially in a new engine setup. With the lifter not collapsed at all and sitting on the cam's base circle, use an adjustable pushrod to attain zero lash. Add .025" and buy a set of pushrods that length. (Measure this a few times so you are very sure.) Any deviation will be compensated for in the lifter. Some mechanics use a solid lifter to measure. I use the lifters that will live in the engine. With new lifters, it's easy to push the plunger down and get a false reading so be careful.

If your pushrod is too long, there is a possibility of the piston closing the valve, which can destroy the engine. A pushrod too short will be loud, the valve will never open fully and I've even seen sloppy pushrods jump out of the lifter. I'm not worried about the dislodged pushrod but if the lifter is vaulted out and gets to the bottom of the engine bad things will happen. Lifters are made of extremely hard steel that does not give.

You can use the 'turns' method if you want, it all comes back to a specific measurement. For example, if your adjustment screw has 20 threads per inch and you turn it one turn, you just went fifty thousandths (1/20" = .050"). One turn is too much. In this case, 1/2 turn is: (.5/20 = .025"). Different thread pitches produce different distances per turn. - Dave

[Yadkin]

Dave thanks for your advice as usual. Remember that I have an adjustable rocker set and custom length push rods from PRW (Performance Quotient series). They defer to the lifter manufacturer for preload.

Crane recommends 3/4 to 1 turn in the install guide that cam with my lifters. Based on the adjuster thread 7/16 fine thread, or 20 per inch = 0.05) this is within the 0.20 to 0.60 from what I find currently on their website. This was what they were all set at before I readjusted last night so there was no wear.

I found an article yesterday attributed to Crane from 2005 from here, stating that in performance applications at least 1 turn should be used. The preload spring has a total range of 2.5 turns so I used 1/2 of that. This equates to 0.063" which is not far off the range suggested by the current literature.

[Yadkin]

Reexamining the interiors of the valve covers and rocker arms last night I don't think I'm making contact. There were scratches that lined up with the interior side of the arms but they are not wear marks or dents, so they are probably due to install contact only. There is one contact point on one rocker, #5 in front, but there is no corresponding point on the cover.

[simplyconnected]

Sometimes I stand in awe at the wonder of production methods and materials over the timespan of nearly 100 years.

I cannot recall a single FE engine with hydraulic lifters that used adjustable pushrods. I'm sure the reason is because straight pushrods are a lot less expensive than adjustable. So, how did Ford produce many millions of 'hydraulic' engines with non-adjustable pushrods and common rocker shafts?

If you think of the 'tolerance stack' from engine to engine, this is very risky business...
Block deck height varies
Head broaching varies each head height,
Cam base circle and lifters can be ground to exact spec's but what about the rocker arms? Both ends must be exact,
The sheet metal Oil Baffle that sits below the Rocker Shaft Stands varies in thickness, aluminum Rocker Shaft Stands have variation and head gaskets do too.
What about heat that expands all the metals, from the valve seat to the cam?

Now, let's talk about wear that also alters lifter preload over time.
Cam bearings, rocker arm tips, lifter faces, valve seats and rocker arm bores & shafts wear.

Every good major overhaul shaves all mating casting surfaces just to make sure they are flat. Some folks shave their heads further for more compression ratio. All these changes alter the preload, so aftermarket companies offer adjustment solutions either at the pushrod, rocker arm socket or center stud.

Pushrods can be made in any fixed length. I had a fixed set made for Penelope's 390 for sixty bucks because the new Morel roller lifters are much taller. All it takes is careful measurement and good hydraulic lifters. If Ford successfully did it in production, you can too.

Y-Block have solid lifters. What a pain. If I could change ours to hydraulics, I would in a minute. Every rocker arm has an adjustment jack screw that must be re-lashed at every major tune-up because the lash always changes. Instead of preload, they want .018" gap. if the gap opens, lifters get noisy. When the gap closes, I lose HP but the engine runs smoother. After redoing this adjustment so many times, the only tool I use is an open end wrench. - Dave

[Yadkin]

After much delay the body work is proceeding nicely. Mike Boger from Classic Metal has been working on it for over a month, and everything south of the door hinges is complete and block-sanded. The hood and right front fender were in really rough shape and it's going to cost more to repair then they are worth, so I am off to Tennessee to pick up some.

I'm hoping for a Christmas completion of the body work. Then I can reassemble the interior.

[Yadkin]

Here's some shots after filling, sanding, priming, block sanding....

Mike filled the factory joints between the rear fender and deck, fender and valance, and smoothed the rear of the fender where it transitions to behind the bumper.

The fuel filler hole is key because the entire left quarter was replaced. The replacement hole did not fit well so mike re-used about 1/2" from the old hole.

[Yadkin]

Got the new hood and fender from TN, and a story along with it. The previous owner had just finished cleaning a 38# catfish when I arrived at his property at 3pm on Saturday.

The parts are from a California TBird that his dad bought to restore. The car sat in the machinery building for 25 years while the old man took it apart and diddled with it. When he died his son sold it all for parts. He sells lots of stuff on ebay but you gotta pick it up.

The seats went to a guy in Chicago that ferries celebrities around in classic cars. The guy drove overnight to get them, and arrived in a sedan. The old seats just barely fit inside the car.

[Yadkin]

Major milestone today. All one color!

[simplyconnected]

Good goin', Steve. Let's see some pics.

[Yadkin]

Here you go!