electric fan

[gregz]

I am in the process of doing a alternator conversion and electric fan set up in my 59 Bird. I have a couple questions in regards to the conversion. I purchased the Crap bracket set up and a ford 3g 130 amp. alt. which came with a 2-3/4" o.d. v-pulley. I know there are concerns with belt slippage under load with a single v belt pulley. Simply connected had mentioned he went with a larger diameter pulley but was wondering what was the o.d. of the pulley used to take care of slippage or will the pulley I have now be ok? My second question has to do with electric fan set up. I have considered going with the Ford Contour dual fan set up like dakotaboy is selling but he mentioned that it is 3.5" deep. I have the long shaft water pump on my 352 and have at most 2-3/4" between rad. core and water pump pulley bolts. I am also wondering what cfm the contour fans produce? From researching this 2500 cfm would be minimum required for a v8 and 3000 cfm + would be better. After this long winded message my questions would be what dia. pulley worked on the alternator and what cfm electric fan set up plus rather I can use a puller fan or go to a pusher?

[Guest]

Regarding the fan questions, I purchased one of the dual electric fans from ebay and could not be happier. They mount to the fan with some small push through plastic clips and mount flush against the radiator. They are slim and you can space it for enough away from the water pump shaft.The CFM for these fans are 1450 with a pull set up. I was always told the using an electric fan set up for pulling air is more efficient. I also installed a Flex-a-lite 31147 Electric Fan Temperature Switch which only turns the fans on when the temperature reaches your set temp. This controller is cheap and is simple to install.

I also have the CRAP alt bracket and 3g alternator and bought a Tuff Stuff Alternator Pulley Steel Chrome 2-groove V-Belt .664" Bore 2.625" Dia. The pulley is a dual V belt pulley, but I only used one of the grooves and left the other. No issues with having the smaller pulley. Charges right and no squealing.

[simplyconnected]

Greg, 'auto electric' places, ones that recondition alt's, starters, gen's, etc., usually remove the pulley before pulling the front bearing housing off. Since most modern cars don't use V-belts, they have a huge supply of pulleys from all makes of gen's and alt's. They are interchangeable from brand to brand.

I happened to be at one of those places when I asked the guy if he had 'something' larger than the one in my hand. I could hear the gears in his head as he recalled which bucket he threw one into. Within seconds he had one 'from an old Chevy'. How much bigger is it? I'd have to go out and measure but it was roughly 3-3/4" or 4". It was only slightly larger but it made a huge difference. The original pulley from my gen squealed like a stuck pig at prolonged idle speeds, like in a parade or bumper-to-bumper cruise (Woodward Dream Cruise) where traffic is at a crawl for miles.

Let's play with numbers. Pi times diameter is the circumference of a circle. If your original pulley was 2.75" and the belt ran 1/3 (.333) around it, the belt area is roughly (3.14 X 2.75 X .33=) 2.87". You could say, since the belt is a vee, this number should be for one side only (which would produce 5.75" of surface area).

Now, let's figure with a 3.75" pulley: 3.14 X 3.75 x .33 = 3.88". 3.88 doubled = 7.77" of contact area. The difference is ~2".

Actually, a larger diameter pulley will contact slightly more belt because the belt angles are more to your advantage. But you can see that this small change in diameter produces at least 1/3 more surface area than the original pulley. That solved my squeal and my alt keeps the battery fully charged at prolonged idle speeds as the electric fan cycles. Would a 4" pulley also be better? Sure, there isn't a huge difference between 3-3/4" and 4".

Also remember, as the diameter goes up the 'lever' increases, making it easier to turn the alt shaft. Yes, alt speed also goes down but only slightly.

I used an electric fan and alternator that Ray Clark got from a pick-and-pull down in Texas so I know CFM is ok. If I recall, he got it from a Crown Vic. Sight unseen, I purchased it from him and installed the 130-amp alt on my '59's Y-block. There wasn't enough room for the fan behind the radiator but there was lots of room in front. So, I spaced the radiator toward the engine about 1" and mounted the fan in front.

Cooler air is more dense so fan blades 'bite' into it better, If heat was a concern for the fan motor, it isn't any more. Cooler air always goes easier on electric components.

***Caution*** I tried the 'stick through the radiator' plastic deals. Vibration eventually wore a hole through one of the cooling fins. Now, I use the outer metal on the radiator support to mount my fan (and shroud). No part of my fan touches the cooling fins.

The radiator fin hole was easy to solder because the hole was small and right on the surface AND my radiator fins are copper/brass. An aluminum radiator hole would have been beyond my capabilities. - Dave

[scumdog]

I used the 'through the radiator deals that I made up as the F100 radiator was too thick for the supplied items.
I used suitably sized cable-ties and 1" x 1" sections of aluminium flat .125" with a suitable sized hole in the centre.
I stuck sections of self adhesive foam strip to the face of these bits of aluminium so as to lessen the likelihood of wear on the fins.
So far it has all lasted four years with no issues.
Oh, and I operate the fan through a relay and a simple on-off switch. (I always have an eye on the temp gauge and am aware of 'might get hot' circumstances.)

[Dakota Boy]

I will just send you the fan setup I have in the For Sale section, and you can try it in your car.

You can just pay me later if it works well for you.

There is a "open" area in the middle of the two fans where your pump snout will fit, and so that should not be an issue.

there are tons of discussions out there on the internet about the Ford Contour dual fan:

http://mustangforums.com/forum/5-0l-general-discussion/659085-contour-fan.html

[60 T-Bird]

Regarding the fan questions, I purchased one of the dual electric fans from ebay and could not be happier. They mount to the fan with some small push through plastic clips and mount flush against the radiator. They are slim and you can space it for enough away from the water pump shaft.The CFM for these fans are 1450 with a pull set up. I was always told the using an electric fan set up for pulling air is more efficient. I also installed a Flex-a-lite 31147 Electric Fan Temperature Switch which only turns the fans on when the temperature reaches your set temp. This controller is cheap and is simple to install.

I also have the CRAP alt bracket and 3g alternator and bought a Tuff Stuff Alternator Pulley Steel Chrome 2-groove V-Belt .664" Bore 2.625" Dia. The pulley is a dual V belt pulley, but I only used one of the grooves and left the other. No issues with having the smaller pulley. Charges right and no squealing.

Can you tell me the Tuff Stuff part number you purchased?

[Ford351c594]

I used a fan set up from these guys cause I had the same fitment issues as you. works fine.

http://www.coolcraft.com/fans/spal-16-straight-blade-low-profile-fan.html

you can see from the link on the right they can make you a custom shroud as well.

it is however only 1600 cfm..........

[gregz]

electric fan

I want to thank everyone for the info you have provided. I also want to thank Dakota Boy for your offer of shipping your set up. I have a couple of options locally to check if this set up will work so I will keep your fan in consideration. I am more of a body man/ fabricator then a mechanic so I have been doing a lot of research on alt. and electric fan conversion. I am also in the process of installing power bucket seats out of a 2005 grand prix so I am planning on upgrading the electrical system too. Simply Connected you seem to be well versed in this area so if you don't mined I would like to pick your brain on what my game plan might be. One question I have is on the intake manifold just behind the distributor is a threaded plug, is this tied into the coolant passage?

[Guest]

part number for tuff stuff pulley is 7610F. Goes for about $16

[60 T-Bird]

part number for tuff stuff pulley is 7610F. Goes for about $16

I'm sorry, misread the former post. I'm shopping for an alternator and was wondering what alternator everyone uses on the CRAP bracket.

[simplyconnected]

...Simply Connected... One question I have is on the intake manifold just behind the distributor is a threaded plug, is this tied into the coolant passage?

There are a couple ports. One is a vacuum port, most commonly used for power brake boosters with a steel tube leading to the rear and it follows the valve cover on the driver's (LH) side.

Another port is in the cooling passage for the temp switch. Then yet another port is for the heater core. This is a larger port by the thermostat. Over the years the locations of these ports have moved around slightly. It's easy to tell which port is in a water jacket or simply a vacuum port.

I have a question for you. Will your new power seats be relay controlled? We normally pass low current through the switch, then let relay contacts power the motor because starting current is high. The same holds true for window motors. - Dave

[jopizz]

I'm sorry, misread the former post. I'm shopping for an alternator and was wondering what alternator everyone uses on the CRAP bracket.

I believe you can only use a Ford 1G type alternator with the C.R.A.P. bracket. You can get a 1G in all different amperages.

John

[gregz]

Looking at the intake again I believe that plug which is on the runner going to the left head would have been for brake booster vacuum. I have a Edelbrock carb and vac. is now attached to front base of carb to brake booster. For the power seat I downloaded the electrical schematics for the car. They show a 25 amp circuit breaker feeding the power seat switch. Schematics do show relays for heated and lumbar control, but my seat does not have these options. I was wondering about relays for this but after looking at factory schematics I figured I would be ok without them especially since it will be adjusted to my likings and the seat would not be adjusted much, plus passenger seat is manual so as far as access to back seat could be mainly done from passenger side. As far as the alternator I am using, it is a small case alt. which is suppose to be same dimensions as the 1g.