58 came home,,, but she has to go back!

[Guest]

Guys...

Any guidance would be great! My 58 came home from the shop yesterday, with a rebuilt powersteering pump and Brakes shoes, drums turned etc. Well, tried to take her out and the Gear Shifter.... didn't allow me to start it unless in nuetural and then the dial... wasn't quite acurate. So I took a friend with me on the road test. She was all over the road, slopy slopy handling in the steering. Brakes where soft (just wondering if they didn't bleed them well), but it was the steering and the gear shift that gave me true concern. I felt better when the power steering pump was out I knew where she was on the road. Last night she just floated. Do you think it just needs to be tighten? I went to put it in park and it kept rolling it took 3 tries to convince it to park...

When at a stop sign she stalled.. just an adjustment on the carb (maybe), but with the gear shift not going into park correctly and ...well... you can guess the rest it was uncomfortable trying to restart with all the traffic.

So where should I go first? I have contact the Tbird ranch via email to see if he would happen to have a 58 steering colum with no slop?

Any way... stuck at home, I don't think she is safe to drive yet.

Shari

[Guest]

Here is a picture of her...

This is a picture of her.. just getting home. Her name is Viola after my Mom....

[Guest]

Hi Shari ...

Nice car. As to your steering issues. I will assume that no other front end work has been done. When the pump is rebuilt the whole power steering system should be gone through at the same time, i.e. steering cylinder and control valve, idler arm, hoses, and steering gear. If the pump was bad and none of these other items have been previously addressed your going to still have problems. You should also check ball joints, shocks, upper and lower control arm bushings and shafts, and sway bar bushings. Not trying to overwhelm you, but all of these items will affect steering and are common areas needing attention on any car with any real mileage on it.
Your shift linkage issue is the same kind of deal. Many areas of wear that cumulatively make for a lot of slop. First thing to try is adjusting the trans to column linkage per the factory manual. If that fails to cure it it's time to repair or replace several items in the column and rehab the linkage rod ends. Here are a few pics of some of the parts involved. On the linkage I cut off the worn shafts and welded on new ones then welded the holes shut and re-drilled them to the correct size (huge difference) same sort of procedure with the column linkage. Mike

[JohnG]

I would say you don't need parts but a mechanic on a long term basis with a fondness for classic cars. Perhaps the shop you just went to, perhaps not.

I think the experience of most of us is that, at first , these cars need a fair amount of attention to detail. Lots of minor adjustments, replacement of key detail items. Once you get over that hump, they are reliable and enjoyable.

In the case of your steering column, it could simply come down to adjustment of shift linkage, perhaps a new detent plate , or who knows.

But my advice is to start with the right mechanic, and do whatever it takes to identify that person.

John

[jopizz]

If you were able to drive it without the power steering pump then the steering box adjustment might be loose. Check the screw adjustment on the steering box. This is a trick some people use when their PS pump is bad or won't hold fluid. They loosen the screw so they can drive it manually. I found out the hard way many years ago.

[Guest]

I think John ...

nailed it. A lot of shops are just parts changers. As he said you need someone who knows and likes your car and can accurately diagnose your problems and will address the whole system involved and not have you coming back again and again to fix the same issue. Cakes, brownies, and short summer dresses can also be highly beneficial in working with a talented mechanic. I've found the best way for me to adjust the steering gear is (first make sure it is full of grease) to turn in the the adjusting screw until you have zero play at the Pittman arm. I like to do this with the control valve removed, and never go any tighter than zero lash. Much better to have a tiny amount of play than to run it tight and ruin the the box. Mike

[Guest]

Thank you!

I want to start with saying all the help is appriciated! I have been working on cars since I was a little girl, but don't let me fool you I don't like to break a nail or get really dirty .
I'm in the Delafield WI area if anyone knows of a good mechanic please let me know. I am a fantastic baker and well I'll post the pic of me in the pensil skirt net to the 58 when I get it taken. Got the entire 1958 outfit to drive on Sundays.

I was just totaly fustrated not being able to drive her this weekend, its cold but the sun is out and I have been looking forward to this. On top of the mechaincal issues that I thought this guy took care his crew also damaged the vynal seats (6 inch cut and ripped out rear seam), so I do hope this guy does it right by reputation. I have the service manual and now know what and where to look for the worn parts. Maybe if I guide the next guy a little better it might help (also cookies and brownies).

I just want it to park when the gear shift is in park and not try to jump back when I'm starting it in neutral. After yesterdays ride I am investing in seat belts too!

well I'll be watching for anyother adise and I will keepy you all posted. thanks for the help again.

Shari

[simplyconnected]

...She was all over the road, slopy slopy handling in the steering. Brakes where soft... Last night she just floated... I went to put it in park and it kept rolling it took 3 tries to convince it to park...

Gaffney 1951's second picture is showing a bracket with an oblong hole (in the middle of the screen). He unbolted this piece and welded the hole shut, then re-drilled it to the correct size. That took much of the shift lever slop out and made his shifting tighter.

Expect fifty years of service to wear parts out besides 'sacrificial' parts like brakes, shocks, tires, and mufflers. This is typical of any old car. The guys are saying, you should have a 'classic car enthusiast'-Mechanic/Restorer go through the Subframe, suspension and steering, and identify any parts that need to be changed. The good news is, all these parts are available. With new parts, you should expect your Thunderbird will perform like new.

'Floating' can be caused by a host of suspension problems, starting with worn/damaged (or mismatched) tires. Let's continue: Worn Ball Joints, worn "A"-arm Bushings (there are eight), worn (or mismatched) shocks, and worn sway bar bushings.

Sloppy steering can be caused by worn tie-rod ends, worn Idler arm bushings, or worn ball joints. I would NOT readjust the ballscrew in the steering box unless it is absolutely necessary.

I don't believe in throwing parts at a problem, but if they are worn/damaged/mismatched/etc., they need to be replaced to restore your car to safe drivability.

If you perform some of these tasks at the same time, you can defray much of the labor costs, for example:

In order to change bushings, the sway bar, ball joints, springs and tie rods must be detached and "A" arms must be removed. Since the "A" arms are out, it is far easier (and faster) to change ball joints on a bench. If tie rods are bad, since they are already detached, might as well reinstall new ones. Old springs feel 'stiff'. If you're doing new springs (for about $200), no sense in reinstalling the old ones.

Steering and Suspension are systems that work together. My point is, by doing these tasks at the same time, you will get a complete suspension overhaul at the cheapest price. I automatically plan on doing this on every classic I buy. If some of the work was already done recently, it makes the cost that much cheaper. - Dave

[Guest]

new Tires

Gaffney 1951's second picture is showing a bracket with an oblong hole (in the middle of the screen). He unbolted this piece and welded the hole shut, then re-drilled it to the correct size. That took much of the shift lever slop out and made his shifting tighter.

Expect fifty years of service to wear parts out besides 'sacrificial' parts like brakes, shocks, tires, and mufflers. This is typical of any old car. The guys are saying, you should have a 'classic car enthusiast'-Mechanic/Restorer go through the Subframe, suspension and steering, and identify any parts that need to be changed. The good news is, all these parts are available. With new parts, you should expect your Thunderbird will perform like new.

'Floating' can be caused by a host of suspension problems, starting with worn/damaged (or mismatched) tires. Let's continue: Worn Ball Joints, worn "A"-arm Bushings (there are eight), worn (or mismatched) shocks, and worn sway bar bushings.

Sloppy steering can be caused by worn tie-rod ends, worn Idler arm bushings, or worn ball joints. I would NOT readjust the ballscrew in the steering box unless it is absolutely necessary.

I don't believe in throwing parts at a problem, but if they are worn/damaged/mismatched/etc., they need to be replaced to restore your car to safe drivability.

If you perform some of these tasks at the same time, you can defray much of the labor costs, for example:

In order to change bushings, the sway bar, ball joints, springs and tie rods must be detached and "A" arms must be removed. Since the "A" arms are out, it is far easier (and faster) to change ball joints on a bench. If tie rods are bad, since they are already detached, might as well reinstall new ones. Old springs feel 'stiff'. If you're doing new springs (for about $200), no sense in reinstalling the old ones.

Steering and Suspension are systems that work together. My point is, by doing these tasks at the same time, you will get a complete suspension overhaul at the cheapest price. I automatically plan on doing this on every classic I buy. If some of the work was already done recently, it makes the cost that much cheaper. - Dave

Well the tires are brand new, they are 15 inch tires I know it was custom to have 14 inch but that was what was on the car so I just kept the same size. I do hope they are not too big for the wheel well, but thats at least one thing that was taken care of .. had to the old tires had rubber rot due to no driving of the car for over 6 years. So, thanks I will look into to someone who does understand what I'm trying to do.

Shari

[Guest]

Just to add my two cents worth! These old cars are BOATS anyway. They did not nor will they ever drive and handle like a late model car I don't care what all you replace! You are driving a 5000 LBS car! That's a 1000 LBS more than a late model Ford Crown Victoria!
My opinion is just an opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Squarebirds and or its members!
Richard D. Hord

[simplyconnected]

...My opinion is just an opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Squarebirds and or its members!...

...yes it does... mine.

[Guest]

I agree...

Just to add my two cents worth! These old cars are BOATS anyway. They did not nor will they ever drive and handle like a late model car I don't care what all you replace! You are driving a 5000 LBS car! That's a 1000 LBS more than a late model Ford Crown Victoria!
My opinion is just an opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Squarebirds and or its members!
Richard D. Hord

Richard, I agree these are Sunday drivers and have to be driven with respect. They don't stop on a dime, and it takes some getting used to turn the corner.... But it has to be a safe driver if at all possible and that is what I'm trying to accomplish. So all the suggestions are great... Giggle even yours...

[Guest]

Well ...

a little off on the weight. The 58-60 birds actually go about 3800#'s and a new Shelby Mustang is well over 4000#. Add alum heads, intake, water pump, radiator, alum wheels etc. and it's not too hard to get down in the 3600# range and with a few upgrades such as heavy duty sway bars good shocks, radial tires and the proper alignment for said tires (this is a must) it's pretty amazing how well they handle. Now step it up a notch and go with rack and pinion steering, lower it a couple of inches and it will handle just as well as many modern cars. Granted it takes a fair amount of work, but hey, that's why were here. I feel very secure running 80-90 mph in mine and it goes right where I point it and has virtually no body roll running hard through the turns. It' not a sports car, but still and all it's a great driver. Mike

[Anders]

Just to add my two cents worth! These old cars are BOATS anyway. They did not nor will they ever drive and handle like a late model car I don't care what all you replace! You are driving a 5000 LBS car! That's a 1000 LBS more than a late model Ford Crown Victoria!
My opinion is just an opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Squarebirds and or its members!
Richard D. Hord

Can only agree. The first time I drowe mine, it was a chock. It took me a few days to understand how to drive this car, and another few to actually appreciate it. Now I love to drive it, but I also know what to expect. Itīs like driving with a caravan. You need to plan the whole thing. You enter corners, 4-way crossing and everything else in a different way to driving a modern car. You even have to plan the time different. Everything will take you longer time. But as soon as you get the swing of it, itīs just GREAT!
I see you have a 58, so there might be one thing you can do to improve the handling, if itīs not there yet, and that is to put a sway bar in the front. Car looks realy great though. Best of luck!

[simplyconnected]

I'm with Mike, but it all depends on what you want... Are you a 'bone stock' kind of person? That's exactly what we look for when buying these classics (and their value is never higher than 'original')?

Or (like me) are you one who wants modern amenities??? I love my '59 Galaxie's rack and pinion steering with dual-master cylinder power disk brakes. Like Mike said, it drives just like a modern car; the steering never wanders and when I mash the brakes hard, it stops straight as an arrow, every single time. These safety improvements feel like it melted thousands of pounds off the vehicle. I am much more confident on the expressway when a little car squirts in front of me and stops fast. I'm right with him.

BTW, all these improvements bolt right on. - Dave