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  • dgs
    Super-Experienced
    • Feb 13 2003
    • 962

    Intermittent No Crank

    Last fall I had a couple of instances where my car wouldn't crank at all after driving it. If I let it sit for a bit, eventually it would crank and off I'd go. The car has always been very slow to crank when warm, I chalked this up to a bad battery. In fact, when I put it away last fall, I had to jump start it to get to the gas station to top off the tank.

    Spring came and I replaced the battery (verified as bad by the auto parts store) and things seemed Ok for a short time. But, now I have more and more instances of no cranking at all, whether the car is hot or cold. Turn the key, nothing. Again, nothing. After 5 or 6 times it'll suddenly crank and start. It seems to crank pretty slowly as well, more slowly than I remember.

    Reading some starter related threads here, the first thing I want to check is the neutral safety switch. I need to pull up on the sifter or put it in neutral and give that a try. I remember my grandfather always having to do that to start it until he had it adjusted. It was probably adjusted 25+ years ago, so it may have moved again by now.

    If that doesn't help, I'm thinking that I've got a starter going bad, what does everybody else think?
    DGS (aka salguod)
    1960 Convertible - Raven Black, Red leather
    www.salguod.net
  • Joe Johnston
    Super-Experienced
    • Dec 23 2008
    • 720

    #2
    The first test I would do when this happens is to blow the horn. Does it sound weak or loud and strong as it should??? That will give us a clue as to the problem.

    Comment

    • sidewalkman
      Super-Experienced
      • Sep 14 2015
      • 508

      #3
      So figuring your charging system is good, sounds like you might be right about the starter, good news is it's an easy fix. I took mine to a local guy to rebuild, its was cheaper than getting a new or rebuild and you know what you're starting with. The amount of carbon and crap that builds up inside the starter is nuts, sometimes all it takes is to take it off, clean it and do a really thorough job on the armature.
      Scott
      South Delta, BC, Canada
      1960 White T-Bird, PS, PB that's it
      Red Leather Interior!
      www.squarebirds.org/users/sidewalkman
      Thunderbird Registry #61266
      http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...ibrary/trl.htm

      Comment

      • jopizz
        Super-Experienced


        • Nov 23 2009
        • 8316

        #4
        It's easy to check. Just put a test light on the starter side of the solenoid. If it lights but there's no crank when you turn the key then it's your starter. If it doesn't light then play with the shift lever. If you haven't replaced the detent plate then most likely you will have to hold the lever up to get it to crank.

        John
        John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

        Thunderbird Registry #36223
        jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

        https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

        Comment

        • Tbird1044
          Super-Experienced
          • Jul 31 2012
          • 1346

          #5
          On top of Joe's test, another would be to carry a pretty heavy guage small jumper wire, and when the car won't start, take the jumper and hook it to the positive terminal of the battery and the "S" terminal on the starter relay. If the starter cranks over, you have resistance in the starter circuit (ign switch, safety neutral switch, connectors). If the starter doesn't crank, and you know the battery is good it is either the starter solenoid or starter itself.
          Nyles

          Comment

          • Joe Johnston
            Super-Experienced
            • Dec 23 2008
            • 720

            #6
            Yep - once the horn blows loudly we assume the battery is near fully charged and (another quick assumption) the battery cables are clean enough for high amperage loads. Now its time to jump across the relay and narrow down the causes.

            Comment

            • dgs
              Super-Experienced
              • Feb 13 2003
              • 962

              #7
              Thanks for all the good suggestions. I'm moving this weekend and up to my eyeballs in that, so trying things will have to wait until the dust settles there.
              DGS (aka salguod)
              1960 Convertible - Raven Black, Red leather
              www.salguod.net

              Comment

              • Dakota Boy
                Super-Experienced
                • Jun 30 2009
                • 1561

                #8
                The heavy-gauge positive wire running down to the starter may be corroded and not letting enough juice to the starter. This happened to me a couple summers ago. The bad part was under some heat-shrink material on the end and it was hard to spot at first.
                http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...ryNumber=33517

                Comment

                • Tbird1044
                  Super-Experienced
                  • Jul 31 2012
                  • 1346

                  #9
                  I've used a battery jumper cable and gone directly from the battery positive to the starter terminal. If it didn't crank then I figured it was time for a battery or starter. That takes everything else out of the system. I kind of use a process of elimination to determine where the problem really is.
                  Nyles

                  Nyles

                  Comment

                  • dgs
                    Super-Experienced
                    • Feb 13 2003
                    • 962

                    #10
                    I realized that I never came back to this.

                    After the dust settled on our move, I decided to take the T'bird out to get the fuel topped off before winter. Against my better judgement, I shut her down at the gas station. Sure enough, it wouldn't crank. I tried moving the shift lever with no luck. At every turn of the key I'd get a slight clunk, but that's it. After sitting for some time and trying it occasionally, with nothing, I dug up the road side assistance number and called for a tow. Another hour or so and a flatbed showed up and took us home.

                    While I was waiting, a gentleman who said that he was familiar with old Fords showed up and tried to help me get it going. We hit the solenoid and the starter with the tire iron to no avail. We rocked the car to try to free the starter, no dice. His opinion was it was the starter, since none of those things had any effect.

                    Any opinions on his diagnosis? Also, anyone buy a starter from Rockauto? The rebuilt units from the T'bird vendors are $119-$140 with core charges of $35-$75. At Rockauto it's about $30 plus a $15 core charge or a new one for $95.
                    DGS (aka salguod)
                    1960 Convertible - Raven Black, Red leather
                    www.salguod.net

                    Comment

                    • jopizz
                      Super-Experienced


                      • Nov 23 2009
                      • 8316

                      #11
                      If you jumped the solenoid and the starter didn't turn then you either have a bad starter, a bad starter cable or a bad ground from the battery to the engine block. No reason to spend more money than you have to. Go with the Rock Auto starter. The rebuilt one says it comes with the drive. I don't believe the new one does so unless you want to reuse your old one I would go with the rebuilt starter.

                      John
                      John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator

                      Thunderbird Registry #36223
                      jopizz@squarebirds.org 856-779-9695

                      https://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm

                      Comment

                      • dgs
                        Super-Experienced
                        • Feb 13 2003
                        • 962

                        #12
                        I think we did try to jump across the solenoid, but it was several months ago so I don't remember for sure.

                        I agree, but I just wanted to see if anyone had any issue with the Rockauto part.
                        DGS (aka salguod)
                        1960 Convertible - Raven Black, Red leather
                        www.salguod.net

                        Comment

                        • simplyconnected
                          Administrator
                          • May 26 2009
                          • 8779

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jopizz
                          If you jumped the solenoid and the starter didn't turn then you either have a bad starter, a bad starter cable or a bad ground from the battery to the engine block. No reason to spend more money than you have to...
                          John nailed it.
                          Before you throw parts at this, prove John's suggestions first. They cost nothing to try.

                          If your battery and ground wires are good, try jumping from + to the starter wire. If nothing still, pull the starter motor. There is an inspection plate held by one screw, covering the brush holders. Take a look.

                          How would you like to save over a hundred bucks and ensure reliable starts?
                          Brushes cost about eight bucks but everyone insists on waiting for catastrophic failure and a tow truck before addressing the starter motor. The same holds true for OEM generators. "...but the starter motor is hard to remove!" Yeah but when it goes, you will remove it anyway.

                          Classic cars require far more scheduled maintenance (than modern cars). When neglected, expect to pay dearly later on. Look, a new starter should last thousands of starts. A daily driver for work starts twice/day for years (let's say four) 350-days X 2-starts X 4-yrs =2,800 starts. (Time to spend US$8 on brushes and change them at your leisure time.) - Dave
                          Member, Sons of the American Revolution

                          CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

                          "We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
                          --Lee Iacocca

                          From: Royal Oak, Michigan

                          Comment

                          • Tbird1044
                            Super-Experienced
                            • Jul 31 2012
                            • 1346

                            #14
                            Just as a side note, I found these on Ebay a while back:

                            NEW STARTER FOR $87, NO SHIPPING. (NOT REBUILT)


                            NEW STARTER WITH DRIVE. $103, NO SHIPPING.
                            Just thought I would give you these options.
                            I hate to get stuck or towed with my classic.
                            Nyles

                            Comment

                            • Wyldie
                              Apprentice
                              • Dec 22 2016
                              • 94

                              #15
                              1. Neutral safety switch - poor adjustment ) worn contacts
                              2. Volt drop to the start solenoid from the key switch / neutral switch
                              3. Check voltage across the 2 small terminals on the solenoid, should be over battery voltage, unless car is cranking, in which case it will be cranking voltage 9.6 volts or higher.
                              4. Check voltage at the starter motor. If you can hear the starter motor solenoid clicking when the key is turned, check voltage at the starter motor. If you have little/no voltage and the solenoid is clicking the contacts in the solenoid are worn. If you have full voltage at the starter, your starter is out of brushes or open circuit.

                              Don't overlook the obvious things either. Loose or dirty battery terminals, earth cable loose connection onto body/block. Voltage in the battery should be @12.6v you can get faulty batteries.

                              Good luck!

                              Comment

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