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-   Thunderbird Production History (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Data Plate versus actual build dates (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6382)

vernz 04-25-2009 06:40 AM

Data Plate versus actual build dates
 
2 Attachment(s)
I decided not to hijack the thread on the last car to delve into build dates further.

The data plate versus production date information in that string and in the new sticky above is really interesting. I took a look at my ROT sheet versus data plate. There are two dates on the ROT sheet, a block entitled "date" and a block entitled "Sched date". To me, the date block was the actual build date and if "11 10" means November 10th not 11th of October, this matches the data plate date of 10L (a 59 built in November 1958). The discussion on build dates versus data plate dates has me wondering now if the sched date block that shows 13L (November 13th) is the actual build date. Did I celebrated her 50th birthday on the correct day last year or was I three days early? There is another reason that this is critically important ;) - November 10th is a Tuesday, while 13L is Friday the 13th!!

While we're talking ROT sheets, does anyone know what the codes are in the Misc. #1 through 7 blocks? My car has entries in the Misc #1,3,4,5 and 6 blocks.

BTW, my ROT sheet was threaded in the springs on the rear seat back.

Vern

JohnG 04-25-2009 05:21 PM

Vern, thanks for the photos and posting them!! That's really interesting! (I am glad for you that you got the version that had a battery... :) )

I wonder what a "3" radio meant... to the best of my knowledge, Squarebirds only had one type (except for white or black trim). Air suspension was apparently in the works for other cars at that point.

thanks again
John

vernz 04-25-2009 07:35 PM

John G - If you assume that the same sheet was used for all cars at the Wixom MEL plant, there may have been other radios for other cars. I have the standard AM push button radio (and it works). I've never seen a decoder for tho misc. codes, although I can guess what some of them are by the options that are installed.

Vern

KULTULZ 04-25-2009 09:25 PM

10L (10 NOV) is the actual asm. date. 13L was the scheduled asm. date.

Serial No. 106527 may not be the correct assembly sequence of all cars. Some may have been built before and after with near nos. depending on how the line was setup regarding access. or paint color for example.

BIRD did not also use a SIGNAL SEEK or TOWN and COUNTRY radio chassis like FORD (option)?

YellowRose 04-26-2009 03:15 AM

Data Plate versus actual build dates
 
Hi Gary,

Something is not right on those dates. The date 11 10 on the ROT sheet you said represents the date the unit was actually built, with L 13 (which we see reversed on our Data Plates as 13L, for example) is the Scheduled Build Date.

Verns Data Plate shows a date of 10L, which according to what you have said, is the actual assembly date, NOT the Scheduled Build Date. That would be all well and good to know that the 10L represents the actual date the Bird was built.

But here is what confuses me.. We know that Greg Prince's Data Plate has 13W on it. Supposedly, the last day of production for the 1960 Tbird. In the email I received from Phil Skinner yesterday the records he recovered shows that the last day of production was the 9th of September. After which the plant closed for Labor Day weekend into Monday, for converting the plant to the 1961 Bulletbird run. IF the date on the Data Plate represents the actual assembly date, then it should say 09W or 08W or some other previous date it was actually built on and NOT 13W because Fords records show NO Tbird was built after the 9th of September. However... According to Automotive Mile Posts, the production of the 1961 Tbird did not start until October 3rd!

The first 1961 Tbird that I can find in the Tbird Registry with a Scheduled Build Date on it is this with a 31K date on it or October 31st. This was 13,855 numbers into the series:
2-door Hardtop
1Y71Z113855

I am thoroughly confused about this now, just when I thought I had it figured out! :eek: We really need to find someone who has a 13W ROT sheet in their possession to see what it actually says!

YellowRose 04-27-2009 03:28 AM

Data Plate versus actual build dates
 
Here are some comments made to Phil by me. We were talking about at what point the Data Plate was installed on the car. He said he thought it was in the Trim and Sealer section of the line.

I am still trying to nail down which of the two dates on a ROT sheet is the ACTUAL date a car was built. The date on the top left in the form, or the Scheduled Date. Here is what I have learned so far from reading the 1959 Shop Manual and the William Wonder Thunderbird Restoration Guide. The shop manual says "The production date code (speaking of the date on the data plate) designates the day, month and year the Thunderbird was COMPLETED". Not SCHEDULED, but completed. The Restoration Guide says "Date codes are represented by letter designations indicating the month in which the car was produced, followed by a number or group of numbers that represent the particular day of the month when the Thunderbird
was ASSEMBLED and COMPLETED on-line". Again, not SCHEDULED, but assembled and completed.

Now that is all well and good, and would indicate to me that if your data plate has a 13W on it then it was assembled and completed on the line on September, 13th. Until you find out that the last day of production was not the 13th, but the 9th! From this I assume that it was SCHEDULED to be completed on the 13th but due to the speed up of the line after the Lincolns were done, they ran some of the 12th and 13th scheduled cars through the line and stopped on orders from management. We know they did because there are cars out there with those dates on their data plate! But they did not change the data plates that might have already been manufactured and stamped... Phil says the plates were printed out at or before the start of the production run for that day. He also says he has seen many cases where cars scheduled for a certain date build out, say 13W were completed well before that date, for one reason or another...

fomoco59 04-27-2009 10:12 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I'm told my build was planned for June 19, but was actually built June 23.
Many of the options were obviously for Lincolns and not available on TBirds. I'll ask John Rotella what he knows about the MISC boxes.
I only have an entry in MISC #1

JohnG 04-27-2009 11:26 AM

Mike, your data plate also says 06 19 (19 F), as in the block toward the upper left hand corner of your ROT sheet. Do we assume that these two items always match, or did they just happen to in your case?

Vern: this helps in your case as your 11 10 must mean Nov 10 (not Oct 11). Your data plate has 10L and with L being November ( I may have forgotten why November is L but I think it is relative to whatever the first month of production was)

So in both cases, is this evidence that the date on the data plate and the date on the upper left box on the ROT always agree? or did we just get lucky twice?

In other words if I had access to other ROT sheets and other people's data plates, would I always find those two dates in agreement?

john

fomoco59 04-27-2009 12:01 PM

Yes, the date in the upper left is the same as what's on the data plate.

Hawkrod 04-27-2009 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnG (Post 30923)
Mike, your data plate also says 06 19 (19 F), as in the block toward the upper left hand corner of your ROT sheet. Do we assume that these two items always match, or did they just happen to in your case?

Vern: this helps in your case as your 11 10 must mean Nov 10 (not Oct 11). Your data plate has 10L and with L being November ( I may have forgotten why November is L but I think it is relative to whatever the first month of production was)

So in both cases, is this evidence that the date on the data plate and the date on the upper left box on the ROT always agree? or did we just get lucky twice?

In other words if I had access to other ROT sheets and other people's data plates, would I always find those two dates in agreement?

john

It is definitely possible that the build sheets were printed on the day the car was to be built and that they knew how many days it would take to complete (under normal cuircumstances) but we know for sure that build sheets are printed before a car was built so that date may vary from the final actual build date. Any delay at all would cause the date to be wrong and unfortunately stuff does go wrong. Upholstery tears, paint runs, engines actually fail etc... The data plates are supposedly also stamped when a car is started (I only know this from hearsay from line workers, I have never seen any documentation of this) so the dates would also match the paperwork but again, the paperwork can't always match the reality. Hawkrod


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