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-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   My dual diaphragm booster and dual master cylinder install (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21894)

Infinite Monkeys 08-28-2017 12:04 AM

My dual diaphragm booster and dual master cylinder install
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's my brake booster and dual piston MC install.
I used this from Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-2123nb-1

I ran all new Nickel/copper alloy hard line, front and back. Highly recommended, it bends and flairs very easily and will never rust.
I reused the old distribution block for the front and bought another one for the back. I put in a new pressure switch in the back line distribution block for the brake lights.

Mounting the combo could be a lot cleaner if you take the time to make brackets that look better. I got this idea from a picture I found on the net. They had used two pieces of square tubing to space the booster out, this does look cleaner. I used 4 short pieces to make it a little easier. Spacing out the booster is necessary because the booster push rod and the tube nut length is too long.

I cut the old push rod and welded it to a tube nut that fits on the new master cylinder and cut the old brackets off the old booster and mounted the new booster on them. Tube nut thread size is 3/8 X 24 for this application.

The 8" booster clears the shifter arm by about an inch. Everything else is factory.

Total cost was about $200.

YellowRose 08-28-2017 12:13 AM

My dual diaphragm booster & dual master cylinder install
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi Iffy! I see you figured out pic posting! Congratulations! What I do not see is a combination valve installed in your dual MC/Dual Booster system. It has always been my understanding that you need one in that installation. In fact, if you put one in and do the wiring off it, you can keep that Gen light working.. But that might only apply if you also have front disc brakes. Do you? I also see that either the original color of your Tbird was not Raven Black but Red. Or sometime in the past, had been painted red... Here are a couple of pix showing the combination valve, and my installation with front disc brakes. That Chrome set up only cost me $25 more over the normal version! My air cleaner, valve covers, VR, oil cap, are all chromed...

Infinite Monkeys 08-28-2017 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowRose (Post 110526)
Hi Iffy! I see you figured out pic posting! Congratulations! What I do not see is a combination valve installed in your dual MC/Dual Booster system. It has always been my understanding that you need one in that installation. In fact, if you put one in and do the wiring off it, you can keep that Gen light working.. I am sure Dave or John will probably comment on this also. I also see that either the original color of your Tbird was not Raven Black but Red. Or sometime in the past, had been painted red...

Hi Ray,
You are correct, I do not have a combination valve, it wasn't necessary for a drum/drum setup. My gen light is still functional.
I had to put in a combination valve for a hydro-boost system I did for my '71 Bronco, but that is a disk/drum. Disks need a residual valve that wasn't in the MC, plus it allows you to adjust bias between front and back.

I'm not sure what that color is, but I like it. Kind of an orange?

Infinite Monkeys 08-28-2017 12:35 AM

Sorry,
I got combination valve and proportioning valve mixed up. The one I used is a combination of both. I think they are necessary if you have disk brakes or a disk/drum combo.
My brakes work without the valve.

YellowRose 08-28-2017 12:36 AM

My dual diaphragm booster and dual master cylinder install
 
If that was the original OEM red color, it would have been Monte Carlo Red on a 1960 Tbird... Unless someone painted it another color from another year. I see your set up is a drum/drum and that you do have your Gen light still working, which is good.

Buckaroo 09-05-2017 10:53 PM

Could a person use this to replace the under dash unit on a 58?

simplyconnected 09-05-2017 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite Monkeys (Post 110528)
...My brakes work without the valve.

Herein lies a big problem.

You have a modern M/C with two pistons on a common shaft.

IF both front and rear systems require exactly the same amount of brake fluid, your brakes will seemingly work just fine. But, what happens when one system (usually the front) wears down more than the other system? The one worn down more will require more fluid and the brakes will only advance as far as the system that stops first.

I hope you understand, as long as all your brake shoes are always adjusted to the drums your system will seem to work ok.

A combination proportioning valve COMBINES both systems by a common piston between them. The fluids never mix but mechanically, they are tied together. If one system's shoes hit the drums first, the piston moves toward the side that has lower pressure. This equalizes both system pressures while the flow is at liberty to be different. If the disparity becomes excessive, the valve turns on a switch, which indicates a brake problem.

The combination proportioning valve for drum/drum (or disk/disk) is the same valve as disk/drum except the pressure reducing portion is gutted.

If you use self-adjusters on your brakes there is no reason for a residual valve. I personally don't like residual valves because they can cause the wheel cylinder pistons to extend so much, they pop out of their bores. This was common on Tempo cars.

I suggest you invest in a combination proportioning valve because believe me, you need it. That's why ALL cars come from the factory with one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckaroo (Post 110715)
Could a person use this to replace the under dash unit on a 58?

Yes, but you need a firewall bracket that extends the new booster up five inches and out (from the firewall) five inches. - Dave

Infinite Monkeys 09-05-2017 11:49 PM

Dave,

Thanks for that extremely informative post. I am looking for the right valve right now and will plumb it in before I drive the car again.

Not taking any chances with the braking system.

simplyconnected 09-06-2017 05:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I suggest this PV4 valve: CLICK HERE Call their number to make sure this valve is also used for drum/drum applications.

I like it because the mounting holes are part of the casting. 1/4"-20 bolts fit. Most of us mount the valve on the fender apron, then plumb to it. The M/C brackets use space under the M/C, making it harder to change spark plugs. If you mount to the fender apron, the valve is out of the way but still very accessible.

Here's an internal view...

sidewalkman 09-12-2017 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyconnected (Post 110722)
I suggest this PV4 valve: CLICK HERE Call their number to make sure this valve is also used for drum/drum applications.

I like it because the mounting holes are part of the casting. 1/4"-20 bolts fit. Most of us mount the valve on the fender apron, then plumb to it. The M/C brackets use space under the M/C, making it harder to change spark plugs. If you mount to the fender apron, the valve is out of the way but still very accessible.

Here's an internal view...

So can someone with Drum/Drum use disk / disk?


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