Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum

Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/index.php)
-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   valve job/piston ring work average price (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21819)

Djweaz 07-31-2017 02:35 AM

valve job/piston ring work average price
 
2 Attachment(s)
After the rebuild of my carb it was still running rich so got the metering rods changed out and jets. I decided to change my plugs thinking they would be pretty fouled from last season as well as the couple of times I have driven it this year. Been a busy summer that has gone to quickly. I pulled the plugs and my #5 was fouled with a bit of oil the other ones were fine with no oil on them. Which brings me to how much would a valve job run on a 430ci? Possibly piston rings? I figure it will be a good thing anyway so I'm not wondering if it had been changed over to be able to run unleaded and won't have to buy anymore octane boost in it which I keep a supply of in my trunk.

Another question I have is where is the PCV at? might it be this odd item in the rear valley? A crankcase ventilation tube? ive been told 430cis didnt have one and a few staid this shouldnt be there.I have seen in a couple pictures at least a hole.

Rob

Tbird6 07-31-2017 11:14 AM

Right no PCV valve just a road draft tube and yours looks to be blocked off. This is very bad. I would install a PCV to clear the internal engine vapors and burn them thru the carb. Right now you are building sludge inside the engine on all surfaces.

Engine will be much cleaner if you run a PCV valve.

Valve job will be much cheaper as you can just pull the heads. Unless you have done a compression check I would do the heads first and see how it runs and drives. Yes install hardened seats (Good idea) but really focus on the valve guides and valve stem seals. Install bronze guides and DO NOT knurl the guides as that is a short cut and not worth it even though it will be cheaper than a new set of guides.

Be sure and cut the head surface to make sure it's strait. It's nice to also surface the intake manifold surfaces but that gets expensive to do and I usually don't unless I have really shaved the heads and the alignment is off.

You really don't need the hardened seats unless you run the car hard which us Tbird guys don't. We are cruisers!
.
.
.

jopizz 07-31-2017 11:56 AM

It appears that someone put a pcv valve coming off the back of the carburetor. If that's so then it's on backwards. That's what that hose connection looks like to me. Where is the other end of the hose connected to.

John

Djweaz 07-31-2017 03:10 PM

Right low and slow is the way I roll haha. So are you saying that I should remove that tube and get a PCV valve hooked up to it?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbird6 (Post 109963)
Right no PCV valve just a road draft tube and yours looks to be blocked off. This is very bad. I would install a PCV to clear the internal engine vapors and burn them thru the carb. Right now you are building sludge inside the engine on all surfaces.

Engine will be much cleaner if you run a PCV valve.

Valve job will be much cheaper as you can just pull the heads. Unless you have done a compression check I would do the heads first and see how it runs and drives. Yes install hardened seats (Good idea) but really focus on the valve guides and valve stem seals. Install bronze guides and DO NOT knurl the guides as that is a short cut and not worth it even though it will be cheaper than a new set of guides.

Be sure and cut the head surface to make sure it's strait. It's nice to also surface the intake manifold surfaces but that gets expensive to do and I usually don't unless I have really shaved the heads and the alignment is off.

You really don't need the hardened seats unless you run the car hard which us Tbird guys don't. We are cruisers!
.
.
.


Djweaz 07-31-2017 03:13 PM

Hey John I have been told that it's a one way check valve for the power brake booster which is where the line goes.
Quote:

Originally Posted by jopizz (Post 109965)
It appears that someone put a pcv valve coming off the back of the carburetor. If that's so then it's on backwards. That's what that hose connection looks like to me. Where is the other end of the hose connected to.

John


Tbird1044 07-31-2017 03:45 PM

It's difficult to tell exactly what is going on and how your engine is set up. Definitely needs a breather tube or PCV system.
If you're only seeing oil fouling on #5 cylinder, you might try changing the valve seals on that cylinder. You can do that without pulling the head. I think there is a procedure in the TRL. Just a thought as this could be a minor fix instead of a major one.
Nyles

jopizz 07-31-2017 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djweaz (Post 109970)
Hey John I have been told that it's a one way check valve for the power brake booster which is where the line goes.

That makes more sense. You definitely need to remove that tube on the back of the manifold. You should be able to install a pcv valve without too much difficulty. Your carburetor has a vacuum fitting on the front that will work fine for hooking one up. You can also remove the plug in the back of the carburetor and put a fitting there.

John

simplyconnected 07-31-2017 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbird6 (Post 109963)
...I would do the heads first and see how it runs and drives. Yes install hardened seats (Good idea) but really focus on the valve guides and valve stem seals. Install bronze guides and DO NOT knurl the guides as that is a short cut and not worth it even though it will be cheaper than a new set of guides.

Be sure and cut the head surface to make sure it's strait. It's nice to also surface the intake manifold surfaces but that gets expensive to do and I usually don't unless I have really shaved the heads and the alignment is off.

You really don't need the hardened seats unless you run the car hard...

This is a 430 MEL with slanted block deck.

Normally, I would agree but in this case I will respectfully disagree for the following reasons:
[list][*]The block bores need to be measured before ANY work is done.
  • New rings exert lots of sidewall pressure but they cannot flex in a bell-shaped bore. They will break.
    • Old rings still work because they are worn and most of their spring-seal is gone. So, new rings need straight bores.
  • If the bores are out of tolerance, the options are few because OEM-type pistons are NOT available. They are domed and come in sets of 4-RH and 4-LH. Otherwise, flat pistons must be used at a drastically reduced compression ratio. So, there goes your HP. <--THIS determines if you should spend any more money on your 430.
  • If newly rebuilt heads are mated with old piston rings, the old rings will fail very soon. (Been there.) When all the parts are new, they seal well but they also wear together, which is why old engines still work.
  • If you're rebuilding heads, I mean if you go through all the trouble to get them to a machine shop, let the shop install hardened exhaust seats. The job doesn't cost that much more and the fear of receded valves will be gone. I would also install stainless valves and new valve springs.

Personally, I would shelve the 430 and build a 390 (FE) because all the parts are supported at reasonable prices. - Dave

pbf777 07-31-2017 09:28 PM

O.K., here goes another opinion from the peanut gallery:D: first, before any disassembly, I would do a compression and more importantly, a leak-down test, in an attempt to establish a somewhat better understanding of the current condition of the engine. With the leak-down test one may establish how great and from where the bulk of any cylinder leakage is emanating from, thereby determining whether just pulling the heads alone is of value in the overall situation.

As far as recommendations of specific processes in the rebuilding machine work, that should be left to the machine shop holding these applicable components, as it would require observation/inspection of their condition.

Not to be at odds with anyone, but since it was mentioned, I prefer to use bronze guide liners (vs. complete guides) in restoration type (old car, "cruisers") guide repairs. This process consists of boring the valve guide bore +.060"+/- pressing a .030" wall bronze sleeve (cut to length), an expanding process, reaming and or honing to size; this removes less original parent material from the cylinder head, leading to less tendency for valve face displacement and is indefinitely replaceable in the future with no further machining of the cast iron. Oh, and it costs less!

As far as hardened exhaust seats, one should look at the existing condition of the cylinder heads. If the seats are "beat-out" then replacement seats it is, but if they're not sunk badly, then for the "cruiser" or show car, I generally agree (Tbird6), that incurring the cost, and, realizing that the manufacture did not intend such a process being executed, therefor did not intentionally provide excess material within the casting for such, and therefor realizing (and experiencing) that not all cylinder heads survive such efforts, it just ain't worth it,..... just to do it.

And, for my other two cents: NOOOO! do not remove and replace the 430 MEL with something else!

Scott.

OX1 07-31-2017 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbf777 (Post 109980)
O.K., here goes another opinion from the peanut gallery:D: first, before any disassembly, I would do a compression and more importantly, a leak-down test, in an attempt to establish a somewhat better understanding of the current condition of the engine.

And, for my other two cents: NOOOO! do not remove and replace the 430 MEL with something else!

Scott.

Agree with compression and leakdown. besides fixing PCV, and maybe doing valve seals. Nothing else on engine should be done without both tests above.

I also agree on keeping 430. maybe it's not the easiest or cheapest, but if we all really wanted that, we could drop in 400 HP EFI LS motors for way cheaper than you can build a 390 (or even an injected smallblock ford).

Not sure if they are done yet, but this guy claims they have wedge pistons in the works.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-1959-19...1VvU5m&vxp=mtr


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.