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-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Horn Ring Shocker! (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20760)

59TbirdPDX 07-27-2016 10:02 AM

Horn Ring Shocker!
Calling all TBird experts: I put a new horn relay switch in my 59 and the horn sounds great!

The bad news is that whenever I touch the horn ring on steering wheel and sound the horn, it shocks the ever loving bejesus out of me.

Any thoughts?

c4clewis 07-27-2016 02:26 PM

Sounds like you are acting as the ground. Bad ground?

Tbird1044 07-27-2016 02:44 PM

Makes me think that something is messed up with the relay wiring or if you have the correct relay. The horn ring should only see the voltage that goes through the closing coil of the relay and then to ground. Shouldn't be a lot of power there. If you are getting shocked it sounds like you might be getting the full voltage to sound the horns.
Good luck with this one and let us know what you find.

simplyconnected 07-27-2016 05:16 PM

Any coil, when power is removed from it, produces high voltage called 'counter EMF'. This Electromotive Force (voltage) happens when the magnetism collapses back into the coil windings. (It's also the reason why your ignition coil produces spark when the points OPEN.) It is momentary like a 'shot' of power and only happens when you electrically release the relay.

I've never heard of anyone complain about this in any car over many decades. Regardless, we have ways of snubbing this high voltage.

Get a common diode, like a 1N4004 (general purpose, one amp) and connect it backwards across the relay coil. More specifically, between the short 'B' wire (that comes from the regulator) screw connection, to the Blue-Yellow wire screw connection.

If you need to extend the wires on the diode, use small 'hookup wire' of any kind. You can solder or crimp the wires to the diode.

Diodes come with a band to show polarity. That band needs to be connected to the POS (B) terminal. - Dave

Frango100 03-23-2017 09:20 PM

Im now in the process of mounting the horn ring back on the steering wheel, and was wondering about this problem of producing a shock. Is the horn ring not suppost to be completely isolated from the electrical part of the horn with the two isolation plates?

simplyconnected 03-24-2017 12:16 AM

Producing a shock? Not when properly assembled.

Locate the triangular-shaped plate of steel, part #3630, in this picture. That plate has insulators around the three screws that hold it to the horn ring. It is energized by the contact brush.

Click on the picture to advance to our steering wheel assembly site...

Scroll down to picture #8, to see the screws and their insulators. If you have questions, please ask. - Dave

Frango100 03-24-2017 03:39 AM

Thanks Dave, but that was what i was trying to say. When the isolation gaskets are properly in place and not damaged, the horn ring should never be able to act as a ground and produce a shock. So most probably the problem of the original poster of this thread was a missing or damaged cork isolation gasket or the plastic one. I received all the horn parts from Carl, but the cork isolator is missing. I will make this gasket myself from some card board, but as the drawing shows, item 3672 is round, while in reality it should have the shape as the plastic isolator 3673. I did make the gasket round, as the drawing shows, but then the horn ring will be in contact with item 3629 and act as a ground.
I will make a new gasket with the triangle shape now.

simplyconnected 03-24-2017 04:10 AM

Look at picture #7. 3673 is a triangle that the screw insulators GO THROUGH. It is also THIN. If you make your gasket too thick it will cause the 3630 plate to contact the 'C' ring which makes the horn blow. If you make your own gasket, use heavy plastic, like from a motor oil bottle. You should 'feel' at least .030" air gap between the 'C' ring and 3630 plate.

Yes, these parts should be isolated from ground BUT, 12 volts DC will not shock you. I doubt your hands can feel 12 VDC. Mine can't. - Dave

Frango100 03-24-2017 04:53 AM

Yes Dave, i have item 3630 which is made out of plastic with the screw insulators.
The thing is that the drawing shows the gasket 3672 as a round gasket, while it should have the same shape as gasket 3630.
Should i use plastic for gasket 3672 as well?
I know that 12V from the battery will not shock me, only the original poster from this thread did feel a shock for some reason. Not concerned about this, just want my horn to sound.

simplyconnected 03-24-2017 05:33 AM


Originally Posted by Frango100 (Post 107288)
...The thing is that the drawing shows the gasket 3672 as a round gasket, while it should have the same shape as gasket 3630.
Should i use plastic for gasket 3672 as well?...

3630 IS NOT PLASTIC. It is steel.

3672 rests ON TOP of the horn ring. 3673 (gasket) is on the bottom of the horn ring.

3672 is round and can be made of just about anything because the electrical aspect or function has no bearing on it. 3672 is simply a 'pad' between the steering wheel and the moving, pot metal, horn ring.

I want your horn to work too. If you follow the diagram it will work. It helps if you understand the electrical and mechanical functions and operation. The real contact is between 3630 and the 'C' ring. The spring pulls up on that entire stack below the steering wheel. When you push the horn ring, 3630 touches the 'C' ring which grounds the horn and energizes the relay. This is a LOW CURRENT operation. High current will destroy the brush and spring.

I didn't hear whether you found your horn relay. This is important. If you don't have a relay you can use a common 12-volt coil relay with contacts rated for 30-amps. They only cost five bucks. I have a dozen of them if you need one. - Dave

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