Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum

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-   FE Engines (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=63)
-   -   428 (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19689)

Ford351c594 11-05-2015 01:25 PM

428
 
few questions. anyone have on in there tbird? I have the opportunity to get a short block freshly rebuilt by a machine shop that a guy didn't come get. I am told it is a service block, with a 428 crank, with reconditioned rods and new pistons.

I know some people here have 460's so I am guessing fitment will not be an issue. Will the stock tranny work or will I need a c6? anything I need to know about these? Again, I am a modern engine guy. I would love to put in a new 5.0, but I am trying to stay nostalgic here. I am not super knowledgeable on older fords. I started working for Ford 13 years ago, so I love the modern stuff.

simplyconnected 11-05-2015 01:41 PM

Welcome, Ryan. What Ford facility do you work in? (I was in Dearborn for thirty+ years.)

I see no problem using the service block. If the machine shop did an overhaul I would expect it has new pistons/rings/bearings/timing set, etc.

What cam is in there? This makes a difference in the type of service your engine will see. If you have more than 260 degrees duration, I would change it for running on the street. Right away when I hear '427/8' I think about racing it, so be careful. The compression ratio is important too. Ask the builder these questions because you may need 93 octane which is getting hard to find. Is the cam advanced or retarded? The builder knows. If it's retarded this motor is meant to deliver torque at high rpm (like for the drag strip).

What's wrong with using your COM? You can do a C6 but why?

Let us know more about what you want and the service you need in an engine. - Dave

Take the old flex plate and swap it with the starter motor.

Ford351c594 11-06-2015 12:44 PM

work for Don Bohn Ford in New Orleans for the last 13 years. I served on Fords TRP panel as well.

It is a 390 block, that is punched out with a 428 crank. rods are reconditioned, and all new bearings. new pistons and rings as well. no cam in it. That is my choice at this point. I am thinking hydraulic roller. He is selling it to me for 1500 with a crane hydraulic cam and a slight up charge for a better cam. I would love to install fast fuel injection on it at some point, but have to figure running a carb for now.

the car is a week end cruiser, but what cruiser is not cooler with more power. Plus it would be cool to have a cj tb.

DKheld 11-06-2015 03:04 PM

Greg DeBerg (Dakota Boy) here on the forum has a '58 with a 428? 429? Might get in touch with him.

Not to hijack your thread but the 428 subject was what caught my eye.

Just recently missed a local '63 Galaxie that I should have taken a look at - only saw it from the road. Nice original two tone silver blue with a white top - but I have too many projects and it was a 4 door so passed on it. Talked about it with a buddy of mine - he was interested too but said it had been sold by the time he went to look.

I told him "you watch - since I didn't stop to look at it - the car will have some huge motor like a 428 or something".

The new owner came to a local cruise-in with the car. It is a 1 owner car with 107K and a factory 428. He has all the original paperwork etc. $1500 :eek: (no I'm not kidding).

That would bring new meaning to the bumper sticker "Get in - sit down - shut up - and hold on". :D

Good luck on your build - post some pics if you get time.

Eric

Dakota Boy 11-06-2015 06:16 PM

my car has a 460 with a C6

Ford351c594 11-06-2015 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Boy (Post 96654)
my car has a 460 with a C6

It thought you were 460 equipped. So I knew they would fit. I was thinking first, I'm lucky enough to get a 428, second it is an FE so it should fit right in. no modification need for a 429/460, although it may have not taken any.

scumdog 11-07-2015 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyconnected (Post 96624)
Welcome, Ryan. What Ford facility do you work in? (I was in Dearborn for thirty+ years.)

I see no problem using the service block. If the machine shop did an overhaul I would expect it has new pistons/rings/bearings/timing set, etc.

What cam is in there? This makes a difference in the type of service your engine will see. If you have more than 260 degrees duration, I would change it for running on the street. Right away when I hear '427/8' I think about racing it, so be careful. The compression ratio is important too. Ask the builder these questions because you may need 93 octane which is getting hard to find. Is the cam advanced or retarded? The builder knows. If it's retarded this motor is meant to deliver torque at high rpm (like for the drag strip).

What's wrong with using your COM? You can do a C6 but why?

Let us know more about what you want and the service you need in an engine. - Dave

Take the old flex plate and swap it with the starter motor.

Yep, don't forget, the 428 is externally balanced, if you get one be sure to grab the harmonic balancer and flex-plate that belong to it.
Use the 390 harmonic balancer and flex-plate and it will shake the fillings out of your teeth!

simplyconnected 11-07-2015 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scumdog (Post 96664)
Yep, don't forget, the 428 is externally balanced, if you get one be sure to grab the harmonic balancer and flex-plate that belong to it.
Use the 390 harmonic balancer and flex-plate and it will shake the fillings out of your teeth!

I forgot about that because I always have my crankshaft balanced WITH a flywheel and harmonic balancer. If you don't, your engine is most certainly out of balance.

I know this is a little late in the game for him but I regard 'crank balancing' as part of an engine overhaul. I weight-match pistons, con rods, then both together, too. In the balance process, a true piston weight (with bearings, wrist pin, circlips, rings and rod) must be known. An average won't do. It seems silly to balance the crank but leave the other rotating assemblies alone. I've learned that these old engines were balanced, but not very well by today's standards. To exacerbate the situation, the stroke was very long which amplifies a small imbalance as speed increases.

It's a bit more expensive but all crankshafts can be internally balanced. A true dynamic balance needs to be internally balanced to eliminate rotating post-to-flange harmonics along the length of the crank. The practice of welding a slug of steel to the flex plate was just to save money. It works but that doesn't make it right.

After balance, I mark how the pulley came off the harmonic balancer so that it goes back on the same way. All of our engines should run smooth as glass, even at high speed. - Dave

Ford351c594 11-07-2015 01:16 PM

thanks dave and scum dog. I didn't know these were externally balanced. I'm so used to today's stuff that is pretty much perfect and the awesome NVH tools we have at the dealer to figure out any issue that would arise.

I'll have to call him back on Monday and see what else he has. Does he have the flex plate and the dampener. If not I may pay for them so he can balance them all together.


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