Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum

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-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   problem with replacement window rollers (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18883)

Anders 05-20-2015 04:41 PM

Thanks Ray. And even more, all who contributed to this thread :) I am thinking of let a skilled metalman make me accurate copies of the original in stainless steel. Anyone who have any information about those rollers made in brass I read about a year or three back? Are they still avalible?

simplyconnected 05-20-2015 06:00 PM

Why not simply re-use the old washers? They are already the right size, made of stainless and I have never seen one wear out. New ones will be the same as the old ones.

partsetal 05-20-2015 07:22 PM

I've never come across ones that were stainless. The problem with many of the tapered washers is that they get bent while in operation and will not give smooth window operation. I imagine a set of dies could be made to straighten them.

simplyconnected 05-21-2015 10:19 AM

Wow Carl, you're right. After reviewing my pictures, I do see rust on those OEM washers. It's the other side that is made of SS. - Dave

YellowRose 05-21-2015 10:55 AM

problem with replacement window rollers
Even if there is rust on those cupped washers, they can be cleaned up, and used again unless they are bent, have bad wear or just not usable. Hopefully, CASCO will opt to fix the configuration of their cupped washers in their metal window roller assemblies. I will let you know what they say when I hear from them. As for the plastic ones that most everyone sells, I have no idea if they have the same problem with that cupped washer. If anyone has used the plastic version, it would be nice to know. I gather from past posts that those who have used the plastic ones have had some problems with them also regarding wear. It is interesting though, that Ford decided to go the plastic roller route in the Bulletbirds and big Fords after they started getting complaints, I gather, regarding the wearing of the metal rollers...

Tbird1044 05-21-2015 03:00 PM

I did some checking on all of the rollers that I have. Here is what I found:
1. Both the cupped washer and roller body are magnetic indicating a high steel content. Low grade s.s. is magnetic. Since the rust is pretty superficial, I would guess that they are a low grade s.s.
2. I ordered some of the plastic rollers, mainly for the cupped washer and spring. When I used a vernier caliper to check dimensions, I found that the original appeared to be 22 gauge and the new ones 23 gauge. It's only about .003" difference and the measurements were close with a + - tolerance within limits.
3. I also checked the OD and ID of the washers and they were all within a reasonable tolerance.
I was going to order some of the Casco rollers, but have been holding off to see if I can get the brass rollers. The 2 different rollers that I have, appear to be the original Ford or new plastic from Ebay, so it will interesting to see what Casco comes up with. It should be an easy check for them to make.

simplyconnected 05-21-2015 03:42 PM

Ray, Ford wasn't the only company that used these rollers. Everyone did, including Chevrolet. Of course they were used across all Ford car and truck lines, how many different rollers do we need? Because of the high volume, it is much cheaper to mold them from plastic than machining them from round stock or pressing them from powdered metal. Ford bought these stamped parts from Mattatuck in Waterbury, Connecticut.

Martin Burs and I did a writeup on these rollers because he made some from brass. I thought he would churn out many more but instead, he was laid off (so he went sailing). That was a couple years ago.

I'm sure that Martin doesn't mind if I share what we know and his experience making them in this Squarebirds.org site:

The thickness of the cupped washers cannot be too thick because a spring backs it up. Just make sure the height is at least as tall as the spool's major diameter.

BTW, cupped washers are easy to make from SS washers available from all the major hardware stores. - Dave

YellowRose 06-12-2015 11:43 AM

problem with replacement window rollers
I am pleased to tell you that Jim Brown, President of CASCO, has just said in an email to me, that they will fix that problem with that metal cupped washer that comes as part of their 23240M all metal roller that they manufacture. IF they need an actual OEM cupped metal washer to replicate it, I will let you know. If so, someone might have to "loan" or give them one to examine and replicate. Here is what Jim had to say, and I post this with his expressed permission.


I received your information about our 23240M all metal roller we manufacture. Thank you for taking the time to investigate the problem and for passing the information on to CASCO and the TBird community. We have made that part for several years now and have not heard of that problem before. We actually only manufacture the solid metal part of that assembly. We use the cupped washer, spring and hair pin from a readily available plastic window roller and toss out the plastic part. But it looks like we should be making our own version of the cupped washer too. I am sorry you had an issue with our roller. Thanks again for helping to make our parts the best they can be.


Jim Brown, President, CASCO

In response, I thanked him for his company's support of the Thunderbird and for their manufacturing of many parts still needed today by the large Thunderbird community around the world.

YellowRose 06-12-2015 02:49 PM

problem with replacement window rollers
Jim Brown, President of CASCO has just advised me that they do not need anyone to send them a sample of the OEM metal cupped washer. He said they have original parts they can reference.

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