Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum

Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/index.php)
-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Engine Identification (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1059)

frank58 07-23-2006 03:01 PM

Engine Identification
 
I got my '58 bird a few months ago and until my building is done have been gathering some replacment parts and going over everything getting ready for a complete restoration. I have not paid much attention to the engine because I planned on doing a complete rebuild.
However this morning I made a very disheartening discovery. It seem this might not be the correct engine for this car...Oh No!!!!
The big tip off was the Carter AFB carburetor instead of a 4100.
The engine visualy is not a 430, it seems to be a 352... I checked the "engine block assembly date code" and it does not make sense..
The code I have is 1-7AP0 ( I think it's a zero). according to the spec sheets the first number (1) is the engine plant 1=Cleaveland.
the second number (7) is the year (1957?). so far looks good. here is where I lose it.. the third figure should be a number designating month I have the letter A , the fourth figure should be a letter designating date I have P... so what do I have???? the third figure should be a number and it's a letter?????? and whats with the AFB? Ca anyone shed some light on this.... I am just devastated that I have the wrong engine.......... What else can I check (easily)?

1960Bird 07-23-2006 07:30 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
It should be a 352...430's were not put in TBirds till 1959.


1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers, 2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears

Alexander 07-23-2006 08:28 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
I seen strange engines in Squarebirds. Several years ago in a car magazine ( it may have been Cars and Parts) they featured a car that they stated was all original. It had a Y block engine in it like the '55-'57 'Birds. Impossible for it to be origianl.

If your car does not have A/C it should be easy to positively identify a FE (the right one for your car). It is stamped "352" of the front of the drivers side between the water pump and the cylinder head.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

frank58 07-23-2006 09:18 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
Thanks Alexander, I will check for the "352" stamp tomorrow. (no A/C).
Oh, by the way.
The intake manifold is cast marked 5750034, it should (I think) be marked 5751037.

JBird 07-23-2006 10:12 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
>It should be a 352...430's were not put in TBirds till 1959.
>

A few were made and had major differences. Does your 58 engine look like this? Some of these have been found. Is so, you are one lucky Bird owner!!!

1 of a few.


http://www.rhyner.com/59jbird/photos...hunderbird.jpg

Photo by FORD MOTOR COMPANY

>
>1960 HT 390, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Shorty Headers,
>2-1/2" Exhaust and 3.70 Rear Gears


Alexander 07-23-2006 10:18 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
It is interesting how that surge tank on that prototype 430 is in the same orientation as the 352.

Alexander
1959 Hardtop
1960 Golde Top

JBird 07-23-2006 10:36 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
>It is interesting how that surge tank on that prototype 430
>is in the same orientation as the 352.
>
>Alexander
>1959 Hardtop
>1960 Golde Top

It's my understanding the 430 58 T-Birds didn't vave A/C until they made room for the compressor by turning the surge tank 90 degrees and moving the side mounted fuel pump to the top of the engine where the surge tank used to be. That freed up a space for the compressor.

On the firewall... the problem of creating enough space for power brakes WITH A/C WAS TO REMOVE THE HUGE DIAPHRAM BRAKE BOOSTER from the firewall to make room for an evaporator housing. A new Kelsey-Hayes bellows type vacuum booster was mounted under the dash and replaced the old larger diaphram type on the firewall. This created another problem for the brake system. loss of fluid volume.

The Kelsey-Hayes booster's stroke was shorter than the old diaphram type which pushed a 1 inch diamater piston in the master cylinder. To compensate for the reduced stroke and thus, reduced fluid volume for all four wheels, Ford added a 1-1/8 inch diameter booster to the T-Birds with power brakes and A/C.

JBird 07-23-2006 10:42 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
>I got my '58 bird a few months ago and until my building is
>done have been gathering some replacment parts and going
>over everything getting ready for a complete restoration. I
>have not paid much attention to the engine because I planned
>on doing a complete rebuild.
>However this morning I made a very disheartening discovery.
>It seem this might not be the correct engine for this
>car...Oh No!!!!
>The big tip off was the Carter AFB carburetor instead of a
>4100.

ONLY 352's had Autolite 4100 carbs. ALL 430's came with Carter AFB's either a 2992s or 2853s
>The engine visualy is not a 430, it seems to be a 352...

If the valve covers have 5 bolts and say FORD it's a 352. 430's had smooth covers with 6 bolts.
I
>checked the "engine block assembly date code" and it does
>not make sense..
>The code I have is 1-7AP0 ( I think it's a zero). according
>to the spec sheets the first number (1) is the engine plant
>1=Cleaveland.
>the second number (7) is the year (1957?). so far looks
>good. here is where I lose it.. the third figure should be a
>number designating month I have the letter A , the fourth
>figure should be a letter designating date I have P... so
>what do I have???? the third figure should be a number and
>it's a letter?????? and whats with the AFB? Ca anyone shed
>some light on this.... I am just devastated that I have the
>wrong engine.......... What else can I check (easily)?


JBird 07-23-2006 10:46 PM

RE: Engine Identification
 
What country are you in? Exported T-Birds had different carbs than the domestic ones and the engines different cubic inch displacements and lower compression.

KULTULZ 07-24-2006 08:20 AM

RE: Engine Identification
 
>Thanks Alexander, I will check for the "352" stamp tomorrow.
>(no A/C).

>Oh, by the way.
>The intake manifold is cast marked 5750034, it should (I
>think) be marked 5751037.

The above Casting I.D. Nos. is the correct PN sequence for this period FE. A 1959 352 BIRD was shown with 5751087.

Do you see any Stamping I.D. Nos. on the carburetor body itself? The 1958 FORD used the CARTER in addition to the 4100 so it is very well possible that your installation is correct or possibly changed (carb) at some point. HAWKROD has the period MPC and can chase it down for you if the carb has FORD I.D. Nos.

As for the engine, do you see any casting marks along the right rear pan rail? These will identify the block.



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