Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum

Squarebirds, Rocketbirds, and Fifties/Sixties Ford Discussion Forum (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/index.php)
-   1958 To 1960 Squarebirds - General Technical Discussion (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Transmission fluid change (http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22127)

Frango100 11-04-2017 10:00 AM

Transmission fluid change
 
So since i had no idea when the transmission fluid was changed before, i decided to do it now.
I had ordered a new filter and pan gasket a while ago.
On the dipstick the fluid had a light red/brown color, but while draining the pan, the fluid looked quite dark.
In the pan is a small magnet, which has quite some very fine metal on it (more like metal dust mixed with fluid). There are also some glinsters in the fluid under in the pan. And a thin layer of a dark mudlike substance. The last i presume to be worn friction material. The transmission internals look very clean.
I was checking how to adjust the front band, but the manual mentions a special tool. Can the adjustment be done without special tool?
To my surprise the new filter has the filter screen on the top side, where it connects to the pump inlets, while the old one has the screen on the lower side. Can it be used like this?

jopizz 11-04-2017 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frango100 (Post 112165)
To my surprise the new filter has the filter screen on the top side, where it connects to the pump inlets, while the old one has the screen on the lower side. Can it be used like this?

The filter sits in the fluid so it really doesn't matter where the screen is as long as it prevents anything harmful from getting into the pickup. I can't say I've ever replaced a filter. The original one is metal mesh and a good cleaning is all it really needs.

John

Frango100 11-04-2017 07:41 PM

Thanks John. I bought a filter kit with the filter and seal. The old filter/screen seems to be ok, only the opening for the pump inlets seems to be a bit too large:confused:. I will try the new filter/screen.
Any idea on how to adjust the front band without special tool?

jopizz 11-04-2017 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frango100 (Post 112185)

Any idea on how to adjust the front band without special tool?

I've never tried it. Maybe Dave might know if you send him a PM.

John

Frango100 11-04-2017 08:11 PM

Some googling showed that the special tool is in fact a 1/4 " piece of metal spacer which should be held in between the adjusting screw and the servo piston stem.
The screw should be torqued to 10 "lbs. Then the spacer must be removed and the screw loosened 1 full turn and then the locknut fastened. Will try this tomorrow.

simplyconnected 11-04-2017 11:19 PM

FRONT BAND ADJUSTMENT
1. Remove trans oil pan and back off the adjusting screw lock nut and adjusting screw far enough to insert a ž” wide metal block in between the servo piston rod and the adjusting screw.

2. Turn the screw until it contacts the metal block. Then tighten screw LIGHTLY (about 10 inch pounds) then back off one full turn.
3. Hold the adjustment screw and tighten the lock nut to 20-25 foot pounds.

REAR BAND ADJUSTMENT
1. Loosen the lock nut and tighten the adjusting screw to 10 foot pounds.
2. Back off the adjusting screw 1-― turns and tighten the lock nut to 35-40 foot pounds.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyconnected (Post 110521)
...BTW, hey Frango100... When are you going to become a paid member??? When you do, I have something for you. - Dave

I asked you a couple months ago but never got an answer. - Dave

Frango100 11-05-2017 05:30 AM

Thanks for the answer Dave.
Regarding your question, i even didnīt see it before. I did answer to a question in that post, but didnīt follow what was coming after.
But yeh, you are right, its about time to become a paying member on here:o.

YellowRose 11-05-2017 07:46 AM

Transmission fluid change
 
Frank, please look for the Private Message I just sent you regarding your new Paid Membership. Also, check out Anything Goes, Paid Members Forum regarding it! Welcome aboard!

Frango100 11-05-2017 08:46 AM

So i just checked and adjusted the front band. Used a 1/4" extension as the adjusting block. It was not far of though.
The new filter (brand Pioneer)unfortunately doesnīt fit:mad:. It looks very much the same as the old filter, only the large hole is not large enough to fit the pump inlet. Or it must go on with quite some force, which i doubt. The old filter has a 7/8" opening, while the new one is 27/32". The old filter is not a metal mesh filter, it is some kind of nylon mesh.
Also there is a (small) difference in the distance between the two holes. Bought this filter from Rockauto.
Then something else, the fluid. Here in Brazil i canīt find any type F fluid. Also not sure what was used in it before, but the car came with a small bottle of Dexron III. (which could be for the power steering). Is there any modern fluid which can be used safely?

jopizz 11-05-2017 10:49 AM

Frank,

Which set did you buy. I'm pretty sure ATP-B41 is the correct filter and gasket set. I believe Rockauto has the incorrect listing. They show B33 which I think is the large case (430) filter. I would call and see if you can return it and get the correct one.

John

partsetal 11-05-2017 12:50 PM

John is correct on the B-41 filter. The other one is also for a medium case Cruise-O-Matic but for later years, not the Large case. The part number trail from the Ford part to aftermarket gets quite involved and has a few errors.

Frango100 11-05-2017 02:11 PM

The pan seal in the kit has the exact size. I think I will go for the "cleaning the old filter" option, since sending a new filter will take several weeks and the shipping costs will be just too expensive.
Looking at the Rockauto site for the ATP-B41 filter kit, I see also two O-rings in the kit, are they suppost to go on the pump inlets? There was nothing on it now and also nothing in the kit I received.
And is there an alternative for the fluid type F? Canīt find it in Brazil.

Tbird1044 11-05-2017 03:15 PM

Frank:
We'll see what some of the old timers say about this, but I recently had my trans rebuilt by a shop that works on a lot of the old Ford COM's etc and when I ask them what they use for fluid, they told me DEX/Merc. Don't have a lot of miles on the tranny, but that is what they use. Here's a link to the Castrol site that says it is okay for older Fords. https://www.castrol.com/en_cc/ccsa/p...-dex-merc.html
Nyles

scumdog 11-05-2017 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbird1044 (Post 112202)
Frank:
We'll see what some of the old timers say about this, but I recently had my trans rebuilt by a shop that works on a lot of the old Ford COM's etc and when I ask them what they use for fluid, they told me DEX/Merc. Don't have a lot of miles on the tranny, but that is what they use. Here's a link to the Castrol site that says it is okay for older Fords. https://www.castrol.com/en_cc/ccsa/p...-dex-merc.html
Nyles

Old original transmissons need the type F but recently rebuilt ones have different face material on the friction surfaces and modern fluids can be used with them.
Or so I'm led to believe.

partsetal 11-05-2017 05:11 PM

Type A ATF was used 'back in the day' as a replacement for type F.
Carl

Frango100 11-06-2017 06:57 AM

Thanks for the answers guys. Since i have no idea when the transmission was rebuild (which i at least expect to have happened once), i probably will stick with a Type A fluid, which i can buy here locally.
Edit: just checked the P/N of the filter (Pioneer) and its equivalent to a B-41. So it should be the correct filter:confused:.

jopizz 11-06-2017 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frango100 (Post 112205)

Edit: just checked the P/N of the filter (Pioneer) and its equivalent to a B-41. So it should be the correct filter:confused:.

I don't see a Pioneer filter available from Rockauto. What's the part number.

John

Frango100 11-06-2017 02:26 PM

I checked it as well before and couldnīt find it anymore also. I bought it with Rockauto in December last year. P/N Pioneer 745006.
I also see this part on e-bay and it confirms to fit a 1958 T-bird with 352. Alternate number B-41.

jopizz 11-06-2017 02:40 PM

According to the Rockauto catalog Pioneer 745006 fits 1963 and later transmissions. I wouldn't go by what Ebay says. The Pioneer catalog is vague at best. Is there a tag on your transmission. Maybe it was changed at some point.

John

Frango100 11-06-2017 02:59 PM

The order from Rockauto I have here from last year mentioned this filter for the 58 bird with 352. Now it doesnīt anymore. But on the filter box is stated that its equivalent to the B-41.
I will check tomorrow the data plate on the transmission, I have no access to the car now. The rubber pan seal at least is of the right size.
By the way, how can I directly add a picture to a message?

jopizz 11-06-2017 03:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It's possible someone changed your transmission with an FX or FM. In that case it would use a different filter but I believe the gasket is the same. Here's a picture showing where the o-rings go.

John

Frango100 11-06-2017 03:15 PM

Will the data plate show exactly which transmission it is, or must the case be measured for that?
I have a paper showing three types, FX, MX and HX.
Iīm almost sure that the data tag on my transmission starts with PBB-
Looking at the drawing, are there two loose tubes to the oil pumps? On my transmission there is only one loose tube, on the aft side. The front side is just a fixed tube connected to a larger module.

jopizz 11-06-2017 04:00 PM

The data plate will only show what it came from the factory with. There was one automatic option in '58, an MX unless it was an export. It would then have a two speed Fordomatic. The code should be a PBL-* for the 352 engine. If it's a PBB-* it's a 430 transmission.

John

Frango100 11-07-2017 12:54 PM

As far as i could see its a PBL-7003-*.
The last digit is difficult to see.

jopizz 11-07-2017 01:06 PM

It appears to be the correct transmission. Why the filter doesn't fit is still a mystery. Even if you are going to reuse the original filter I would still contact Rockauto and see about exchanging the Pioneer filter for an ATP B-41 filter and see if there's a difference.

John

Frango100 08-13-2018 12:21 PM

So in the near future i will have to buy fresh fluid for the rebuild transmission. Now that it will have modern friction materials, there should be no reason to go with type F (which we don't have over here) or type A fluid anymore i think. Would a modern mineral fluid not be a better option?

Tbird1044 08-13-2018 05:09 PM

I had my transmission rebuilt, last year, by a shop that specializes in a lot of the older Ford transmissions. When I picked up the car, I asked them what fluid I should use in the transmission. They told me they filled it with DEX/MERC and that is what I should use.
We'll see what others on the site have to say.
Nyles

OUR5T8BIRD 08-13-2018 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbird1044 (Post 117000)
I had my transmission rebuilt, last year, by a shop that specializes in a lot of the older Ford transmissions. When I picked up the car, I asked them what fluid I should use in the transmission. They told me they filled it with DEX/MERC and that is what I should use.
We'll see what others on the site have to say.
Nyles

Would not put Dexron / Mercon in my transmission, thank you . Will stick with Ford Type F . ( Type F replaced type A many many years ago ) .

" Type F should be used in transmissions , Ford 1979 and earlier models where type F is specified in the owners manual . Type F fluid differs in its frictional properties as they relate to the design of certain Ford automatic transmissions . The number of, composition of , and pressure on the clutch plates requires a fluid with different frictional properties to a Dexron 11 fluid, to ensure accurate trouble free transmission operation. "

This according to the lubricants handbook.

Frango100 08-13-2018 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUR5T8BIRD (Post 117005)
Would not put Dexron / Mercon in my transmission, thank you . Will stick with Ford Type F . ( Type F replaced type A many many years ago ) .

" Type F should be used in transmissions , Ford 1979 and earlier models where type F is specified in the owners manual . Type F fluid differs in its frictional properties as they relate to the design of certain Ford automatic transmissions . The number of, composition of , and pressure on the clutch plates requires a fluid with different frictional properties to a Dexron 11 fluid, to ensure accurate trouble free transmission operation. "

This according to the lubricants handbook.

But the handbook is considering the original transmission with its original clutch material. On a rebuild transmission, the clutches use modern friction material,
which doesn't require the type F.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.